In reply to Jonathan’s comments concerning the degree/non degree debate, (Past, present and future, Ajarn Postbox March 1st). I can assure you that my comments at least were not intended to be “trumpet blowing” or “hate filled”. They were simply observations that only in developing countries could a non-degree holder pass themselves off as a teacher. Surely, if the job requires only oral English capabilities, then all may apply and accent, vocabulary, plus pronunciation can be taught by any native English speaker, (or passing tourist). Perhaps Jonathan fails to realise this and is a little perplexed as to why the Thai government and education authorities are slowly realising that non-professional and/or non-degree holders shouldn’t be educating those that aren’t either?

As for Facebook, I’m afraid that I personally wouldn’t go near that site and as for obtaining information for a place like that, enuf sed, u no Wot i mEan? Certainly, if I was a teenager I too would want a blonde 30-year old, happy and non-degree tourist, against that of a professionally trained educator.

Alas, in all my contact with professional teachers I have never met one who couldn’t teach and the same goes for professional doctors; I have never met one who couldn’t diagnose and/or prescribe either, or a mechanic who didn’t know the workings of an internal combustion engine. I have also never met a non-degree holder who was more or better educated than a degree holder. The title and academic award(s) surely reflects the capabilities and training?

Jonathan suggests that those here for a depraved lifestyle should return to their countries of origin. Unfortunately Jonathan, this I suspect is where many of the non-degree and non-professional teachers are recruited from. They are not returning home because Thailand is one of the few places left where they can pass themselves off as ‘teachers’. The Thais at last are perhaps beginning to realise this?

This dumbing down of professional and academic achievements is, in my opinion, an emerging trend in western societies, where equality now triumphs over professionalism. A society where anyone can be everything with information gleaned from ten minutes spent on a website. Is this the route we want Asia to take? What is starting to happen now, with a tightening of professional standards, was bound to happen and the only surprise is that it took so long. The days of the fake degrees, the backpackers trying to pass themselves off as professionals, the falsified CV’s, the sex tourists . . . . . is starting to come to an end Jonathan.

The bottom line is this; if you haven’t or aren’t capable of educating yourself, you shouldn’t really be in a position to be educating others, no matter what you personally consider yourself capable of.

James

In reply to Jojo Tiger, 'Help urgently required' (Ajarn Postbox 1st of March) I don’t pretend to be, “in the know”, but putting myself in your position. In my opinion, many of the text books used in Asia in general are far in advance of the student's capabilities. They assume a level of competency that few attain, given the ‘happy happy’ method of teaching and the no-fail emphasis. We’ve all I suspect had this problem and the problem solving ball is now firmly in your court.

Take the sustainable economy question; what is a sustainable economy? Why is it in a country’s best interests to have one? How can overall production be improved to make a country self reliant? Given that Thailand is a rice producer and exporter, what type of rice growing, wet or dry, does it have and why? What is a trade deficit?

These sorts of questions might appear on a test examination; an hour or two spent on the internet will give you the basics of the subject, from which you can make lesson plans and try to second guess what might be asked. Keep things pretty basic, at the level of your students and bring in thinking skills, so that they also continue to question themselves about the subject and gain further knowledge.

This is where your teaching skills come into it, researching an unknown subject at a basic level and presenting the sort of information you get in a factual examination preparation way. Perhaps it isn’t what you were contracted to do, but it is a challenge and one which you too will learn from. If you can do this, I’d say you would be confident enough to teach any subject, anywhere and your professionalism will certainly increase in the eyes of those in the school hierarchy who have suddenly abandoned you.

Good luck to you and although my comments are simply suggestions; take a deep breath, spend a sleepless night researching on the net and you should have enough information to develop a small series of knowledgeable lesson plans by the morning.

James

Dear All, In my final installment to this lively debate which I hope will get published, however, I may give too much of a clue as to where I am referring which may need the humble "edit". I leave you with this.

I take my teaching very seriously and while I introduce fun and enjoyment into the classroom I expect a certain something to come out of my classes. I at the very least expect, from the time my students have spent with me, that my students are competent in the basic tenses or past, present and future. I really wish and hope that they have understood and I have been able to impart the knowledge of all the 12 tenses to them but sometimes that doesn't quite seem to work out. I would suggest to everyone who has a little time on their hands give Facebook a glance and have a look at the many Facebook pages that are representing some of the international schools.

Before the teachers among us with degrees start blowing the proverbial trumpet, have a look at the comments sent in from ex-students. I refer to students that have had the benefit of access to, in most cases, an imported, recruited abroad seasoned professional teacher. I suspect one of those teachers who have honed their skills over the years, as one person had put it. Take a good long hard look and see what they have written. Sadly having been exposed to that top notch education costing in some case millions of baht can they write in the past, present or future tense? Sadly not.

So, please stop all this business singing the praises of a degree-possessing teacher .Yes, in most cases they are the preferred option but they are not the only option and never will be, there will always be that waste of space floating around in the system and there will always be those without degrees doing a sterling job. Alas, however hard you try in this world "46 years of excellence" won't always give you what you expect.

I thank you for reading and thank every degree-possessing teacher in this country for the job they are doing and I request all the degree-holding teachers who can't teach to move on go work in a factory, that's where you should be. I also thank all the non-degree holding teachers in this country for doing a good job despite the hate that is constantly hurled at you, and I also ask all you non-degree holding teachers that are here for a backpacking, sex-filled, binge drinking holiday to pack your bags and move on go and work with the other teachers in that great factory of life.

Jonathan

The Non Formal Education sector in Thailand is one of the most important, well-funded areas of education and one of the most deeply rewarding audiences to work with. Many people grew up in villages where they were required to help their families and start working, and so were unable to complete their formal education. This later impacts their earnings as the pay will be based on where you left education. So enormous effort has been made to provide nationwide access to excellent opportunities for students who as young adults are determined and willing to return to evening classes. This is the most amazing way for young adults to finally complete their school certification process, and the dedication speaks for itself.

I have a class of thirty of the brightest, most hard working students any teacher could wish for. They are all in full-time employment, and make the time to come to class four times a week, so they can proudly finish their thai school years. I am employed for twenty hours a week to teach English, and have been given a lot of freedom in my classes. Their official text books are banded into the level at which they need to gain their Thai certification, and the text books are a guideline with probably too much emphasis on Hello, my name is......

The Thai students have often studied English for many years and switched off from their endless grammar lessons because they saw no point in learning. With a good teacher based in solid PPP teaching, it is possible to present new material and grammar and let them practice and produce great work. Of course, when they see the real language come alive through speaking and listening activities, their love for English deepens and they take the leap and actually can't stop talking English!

Learning what is your name, really only develops staff working in housekeeping, and does not have any real sense of empowering students to talk about their lives, and interests and learn the non Asian skill of expressing opinion. I now have a noisy class of adults talking about what film they saw at the weekend, where they are going next weekend, and what they want to achieve in five years time.

Practical applications for past and future tense, make them see very quickly that grammar brings all their vocabulary alive.

The reason I write, however, is that the Non Formal Education sector has two additional courses that on paper sound creative and essential. Learning Skills and Sustainable Economy. However, these two course books have been written at Post Doctorate level and translated into diabolical English. The level is far beyond even the best of students. They have no teacher for these two subjects and now, four weeks before their exams, they are in a terrible state of upset as they will be tested on material they can not possibly comprehend.

Of course, I care. If they fail these two papers, all their scores in English will drop and they will suffer from a lowered overall score. How can I help? I can drop all their English hours, and step in and pretend to be Teacher 2, and in four weeks try to translate these two text books, cram them for their exam and with a wing and a prayer get them through this. But, the bottom line, is the very thing they need to establish the potential of getting through these course books, is English, and this now has to be stopped. Yes, I can see the irony. And yes, I am pretty furious about this. I did not agree to a job teaching a theoretical social and economic model that is based on Thai agriculture policy and religion. And of course, I am not equipped to do this.

Are there any teachers in the NFE sector that are currently faced with the same concerns, and if so, please advise me how, on earth to manage this. Suddenly, my superiors, cannot speak English, and refuse to recognize that there is a problem. In fact, in typical fashion, I am now the problem!

Many thanks, and look forward to hearing from anyone in the know.....

Jojo Tiger

I won't reply to specific people because all I wanted to do was kindle a bit of lively debate. Whilst one gentleman has rather ignorantly assumed that I am not qualified to teach the others have, in the main, taken it to heart. I quite agree that there is no real replacement for an education in any field. However, in countries such as Thailand where there is a need for quality teachers, it is getting its fair share of teachers qualified and unqualified who shouldn't be anywhere near a whiteboard.

There are, without any doubt, a large number of qualified teachers ( they have managed to get a degree ) who are of such low quality that they have by sheer default ended up here because no self respecting school in the UK, USA or Canada would let them near impressionable children. It is through this exact same reason you get problems in some of the other professions such as lawyers, doctors and engineers. In all these professions the moron, as someone put it, who managed to stumble and drink their way through university and scribble down enough words to obtain their degree, would end up either killing someone on the operating table ( enough cases of that around the world to fill a book ) send the wrong person to prison ( more than enough of those cases ) or designed a building that eventually collapsed ( plenty of those too ).

So whilst I agree in the main with whats been said one should not forget that many years ago a degree was not necessary for some of these positions, the humble "A" levels were quite key to moving on in some professions. Obviously before some person jumps in steam pouring from his or her ears I am not suggesting that there is a substitute for any education I am merely pointing out that there are some people on this planet that have not had the good fortune to go to university but are more than capable of contributing to an equal level of someone who has gone to university. To suggest that anyone who has a degree really is very short sighted and single minded.

You might not like the idea of it but at the end of the day if I had a choice of who was teaching my children, yes, I would like the person to have a degree and be a suitably qualified teacher but if he or she doesn't know all their grammar ( maybe they were absent from that lecture due to the dorm party the night before ) what use are they.

I only comment on this having seen first hand the inner workings of the international school and to be honest, whilst I don't want to tar everyone with the same brush, if what I saw was the normal level of English you can keep it. So I wish everyone well and I agree to rid the country of all the teachers qualified and unqualified if they don't know their p's from their q's.

Jonathan

An oxymoron if ever there was one. An uneducated educator. My query: Why would someone who doesn't value education enough to actually get one think they are qualified to be an educator? In their home countries, having an education beyond a simple high school completion, coupled with professional licensing is required to join the ranks of the teaching profession. Why should Thailand (or China / Taiwan / Malaysia / Indonesia) be any different?

You can't be a chef without a 2-4 year apprenticeship.
You can't be an accountant without proper academic credentials and licensing.
You can't be an automotive mechanic without holding academic credentials and an apprenticeship of up to 4 years.

Real teachers take 4 years to learn the basics of their craft. They spend additional time each year on professional development and often return for upgrading and honing their skills. 4 years to be a cook, accountant or mechanic; why then should any person with a 100-hour TEFL and who thinks they can speak English, be considered to be a teacher? (you will also notice that the only people, in my experience, who think that uneducated teachers can teach are other teachers who also have no credentials). A degree is just the first step and should be considered as such. It should be the bare minimum; even in Thailand. Kids deserve that much.

Dave

My name is Sano and I have been teaching here for more than 7 years. I am from Guinea (West Africa). I graduated in 2005 in Malaysia and came here looking for a job. I am fluent in both English and French. The first thing i noticed was that skin color was the first thing most schools looked at but not the qualifications. We always heard "native speakers". I do agree that a language should be taught by a native speaker but it is also important to look at the person's qualifications. I worked with many native speakers and were better than them in many fields. They were without degrees and qualifications.

Another thing is that people from Russia, France and other European countries are preferred to non-whites just because of the color. To be honest i have nothing against anybody out there but the thing is that the system is so unjust and unfair. i have a decent job and wish that many non-native teachers had the same opportunity. Dont judge a book by its cover. I do understand that it is not the schools' or agencies faults all the time. It is simply because the parents want their children to be taught by a white-skinned person and that is all. So it is all about parents paying money and schools or agencies offering them what they want. Thank you and I am sorry if anyone feels offended by this.. it is the reality

Sano

In reply to Jonathan French, "Who is really qualified to teach", Ajarn Postbox 26th February. The answer is in the word, 'qualified'. A degree is a requirement in your own country for any profession; what makes you think it shouldn’t also be a requirement in Asia?

I agree that education ought to be about quality; a degree alone doesn’t guarantee that, but what it does do is guarantee that the holder is in possession of some knowledge gained over a substantial period of intense study, against that of no formal education. I personally received my knowledge from people qualified and knowledgeable enough to give it, not from people who could manage a class, keep them happy and keep the money rolling in. To those of us who earned and received our degrees, I can assure Jonathan that we’re grateful it came from professionals and not from our ex local factory worker who came for a holiday and never went back.

Should we now be seeing the demise of teacher training colleges and Universities in favour of those who think formal education is an outdated requirement? Is the giving of education now to be seen in the light of changing the spark plugs on a car? It’s something you either can do, or something you can’t?

What does a teacher without a degree tell me? Nothing of any value. What it does suggest is that they are probably incapable of finding work within their own countries and if they did, it would probably be related to that of a checkout operator at their local store, or a factory labourer. What then makes people without an education, who are unable to teach in their own countries through lack of a formal education, suddenly become worthy of the title of educator in another?

To anyone working illegally, without even a degree, (or a fake one); I hope you’re removed as soon as possible back to your country of origin and try to do the same there! As an example; I’m not an engineer and so am not able to secure employment in that sector in my home country; completion of a 100 hour certificate should not enable me to obtain employment in that sector in another country either.

Jonathan’s statement that his friend is the Head of an English Department and hasn’t even got a formal education says it all. Where else but in a developing country would that be allowed? I personally find it reassuring that doctors, nurses, lawyers and others in professions aren’t allowed to practice with the equivalent of a three week certificate!

It is probably for these reasons that Thailand is tightening up on the people who educate their children and I wish them the best of luck.

James

Dear Ajarn, I am emailing in reply to the many letters that have appeared recently regarding mainly those qualified to teach English. It is true I believe that the Thai government is trying to tighten up on qualifications and the type of person that ends up teaching in their schools. It is sadly still true however, that a significant number of people are still teaching in schools that really shouldn't be, and I comment on that from the point of view that they don't know their grammar and are not really capable of stringing two sentences together.

Yes, someone may have a degree but what does that tell you? Are they going to be a good teacher, in most cases probably, they will want to do their best. Sadly in quite a large number of cases you can have someone with a degree who is not going to be a good teacher and someone else without a degree who is a very good teacher, but they will lose out as they don't have the coveted piece of paper.

A friend of mine works at a school and is head of English, he doesn't have a degree and neither have a lot of the teachers there. The school is quite happy even though a tad illegal but at the end of the day, the students are getting a good education from teachers who know their subject.

The same colleague recently dismissed two teachers. Unfortunately students asked them a specific grammar question and they had to say they didn't know, it came to pass that they didn't know a lot about grammar. I suspect that you will all say "well that serves them right for employing teachers without degrees and knowledge" it did serve them right but these two teachers had degrees in English too. So what does this tell you, a piece of paper doesn't necessarily make you a good teacher you need that special quality.

A lot of people also have a dig at Filipinos who in the main can be good teachers but also some cannot. I recently spent some time in an international school where parents were paying nearly 500,000 baht a year to have their children taught English. The one Filipino teacher couldn't string a sentence together correctly and the information signs up in the classroom were so bad I nearly fainted. On the other hand, two classrooms down a Filipino with 20 years teaching under her belt was doing a very good job.

I think what I am trying to say is there should be some common sense attached to the employment of teachers. To all you sex tourists, perverts and other undesirables who trawl the teaching profession here for a salary to fuel your degenerate and pathetic lifestyle here, I hope all is done to rid you from this country and spare the children from your filth and depravity.

To everyone else who works here illegally and legally I hope you continue to give the students a good grounding in English and lets hope that some common sense prevails. Please let teaching be about the quality of the teacher and not the quality of the paperwork. I know this will annoy a lot of teachers with degrees that have the short-sighted view that anyone without a degree cannot be a teacher, I hope those will take a good look around them and see that actually a degree does not automatically make you a good teacher. Best wishes, Jonathon

Jonathan French

I'd like to react to both Lyndsay's and Brian's letters concerning the EFL industry in Asia. I do partly agree with Brian that a lot of English teaching is considered entertainment and that many if not most students are not really interested in learning English seriously. Therefore, many teachers are reduced to being entertainers since most schools adopt the no fail policy. As for Lyndsay saying skin colour matters, well this is unfortunately true for many schools. Although I agree that it shouldn't be important and that qualifications and experience trump appearance, in Thailand it is still much easier to get a job when you are white.

Filipinos or other teachers who were not born white can, however, also be great teachers. Maybe given more time Thais will start acknowledging this. Finally, it is not a good idea for these teachers to argue their case by sending a letter containing about two dozen mistakes. This negates the case they are trying to make. Just saying.

Dave Watson