I have heard that South Africans are not NES now, and they have to take an English proficiency test if they wish to teach. How does the Ministry of Education define an NES? There is a teacher I know who was born in a non-English speaking country in Asia who then grew up in a non-English speaking country in Europe which gave him his first language. Then, he learned the language of his birth country. He finally moved to the U.S. as an adult where he learned English as his third language. He holds a U.S. passport and is working in the position of NES teacher. His accent is not NES, he speaks to his students in pigeon English, his spelling is awful and his grammar is even worse. If he had to take an English proficiency test, I think he would probably fail. Does holding a U.S. passport define him as an NES or has he got his teaching position under false pretenses?

Jason

On the topic of Thais not generally being able to speak English that well, I'm not sure teachers can fix this issue, it's more of a society thing. As for good or not so good teachers, that self fixes itself if the society thought changes. I have taught English in Laos for three years. The students there are more interested and motivated, and as a result can speak English at a higher level. Why are Laos students more motivated then Thai students ? Well it comes down to the society group thought or lack there of.

In Laos they have a thirst to talk and communicate with foreigners. They are genuinely interested and eager to learn about other cultures. They are open. Why? I don't know, maybe its because its a smaller country, lack of solid national identity, isolated. The desire to travel to other countries, to explore, perhaps a lack of society group thought governed and pushed by their government to instil a particular idea. Maybe the need to expand and grow, to evolve, perhaps a lack of Laos written books/novels/magazines and Laos TV/movies.

In Thailand they have a genuine disinterest to talk and communicate with foreigners. They're generally not eager to learn about other cultures. They are closed. Why? who knows. Maybe its because its a big country that houses everything that you'll ever need in your lifetime. No need to go outside the country, to travel, to live. Is it a super-strong instilled national identity? The abundance of everything Thai spoken and written - a strong society group with thoughts governed and instilled by the governing forces to produce a singular idea and path.

It has to impact daily life to be truly learnt. Do you remember all your secondary education of statistics? or chemistry? Well probably not, because if you don't actually use it in your daily life it will be eventually forgotten.

My thoughts are that Thai students don't absorb as much as we'd like because they never use the English language (no use, no need). Never read, write or communicate in the English language. They are perfectly happy with everything Thai language, which is perfectly reasonable since they have an abundance of material in their language including technology gadgets.

I think there are two basic needs to learn and use the English language. English outside Thailand, and English inside Thailand.

1) English outside of Thailand:
This one is tricky. Speaking Thai outside of Thailand, won't get you very far. So the obvious blanket answer would be English is the most accepted form of international language from all the countries holistically. Great ! But are your students even thinking about traveling internationally? Living and working in a foreign country? Probably not, even if they say yes, its a half-hearted yes at best. They are young, eyes closed, and everything Thailand, which is reasonable.

So to give them the need to learn English, you have to open their eyes, show them the world outside of Thailand. The opportunities, the enriching experience, the tastes and delights of foreign cultures.

2) English inside Thailand:
Very difficult but shouldn't be. There are two reasons to speak English inside Thailand.

Firstly, jobs and career ! Seems simple doesn't it? You'd think by simply explaining to your students that if they excel at the English language they will be provided with a greater opportunity in the job market. Their wages will be generally higher, and would have preference over others that can't speak English as well.

Maybe try actively showing them the opportunities that lie ahead. Clip job postings for an English speaking/reading Thai national. Create a job board, and continually post the clippings, showing all the different employers, from NGO's to government and private institutions. Show the difference of wages. You can do an in-class exercise if you have access to the internet or assigned homework, asking each student to find 5 jobs requiring English and 5 that don't. You can bring in guests, either employers or employees explaining a real life application of their English skills in the job market.

Also actively explain that everyone can get a A+ in English class, or get a degree or certificate without actually learning the subject. It might look good on your CV, and get you an interview, but probably won't land you that job when you have to demonstrate your English speaking and writing skills.

Secondly, communicate with foreigners within Thailand:
This one is extremely difficult to instil. As it is now'ish, it's kind of like two worlds, no wait, more like three worlds in Thailand. You have Thais that speak with Thais, you have Foreigners that speak with Foreigners, and then you have the Foreigners that speak with Thai bar girls. Three totally separate worlds within one country. The "average" younger and middle Thai generation don't generally speak with foreigners at all. I don't know, its a weird societal singular thought process that is going on. Whether its construed as bad, improper, or whatever. Thais always worry about what other Thais see and think, you have to keep to the norm or fear reprisal.

Open your students up to the possibilities of engaging in communications with foreigners. Actively explain that foreigners that are traveling here or staying here would love to talk with a normal local outside of the immediate tourism scene. Talk about anything, food, weather, people, activities, daily life, etc. Excite them about learning about other cultures, being inquisitive, exploring worlds with words and pictures. (this one is difficult to instil in your students, I only know that there is a universe of difference between Laos and Thai students, and this being the essential lynch pin of difference)

Long and winded yes, but the Thai culture and logic is baffling.

Steve

I really respect the people that come to Thailand and get jobs working in schools to help students learn English. I've worked these types of job in the past and know that I've made a difference in the lives of many of the students that I've worked with. I really do feel though that teachers - both Thai and foreign - are exploited in Thailand far too much and that the only way to change this would be for foreign teachers to look elsewhere in Asia and the world for jobs. I believe that by doing this it would force many schools to not be able to offer the programs anymore and the more serious schools would take measures to try and get good workers. The fact that foreigners come to Thailand to teach for 25k-30k a month isn't a huge opportunity to be giving up anyway especially when you consider the pay in places like Korea, Japan and even Vietnam. Even for what the international schools pay in many cases isn't a great deal if you compare the salaries and benefits to living in the west. I understand for some people the love of working in schools in Thailand is more meaningful than a pay check and that is why I respect these types of teachers so much, but long-term these teachers will be out more so than not with not much to show for it.

Derek

My name is Colin and I have been working in Thailand for nearly a year. My government School is in Mahasarakham Province. It has 2500 students and I teach 800 students every week, well it should be 1100 but being absent seems to be hip over here. My question is this - if I need help regarding school policy, where can I get good solid advice. I am by trade a PE teacher and teaching to me is a love, and I enjoy teaching at the school. I work 26 hours a week and I am paid 30,000 Baht. I really need to have a chat with someone who is well versed in government school protocols. I hope you can help. Please contact me by e-mail clnlesley@gmail.com

Colin

I am an American qualified teacher who's been living/teaching in Thailand for 16+ years. I read your comment about who is responsible for paying for work permit and visas. You state that there is no legal answer and I beg to differ on that. My present employer made the mistake of reading the legal requirements in Thai and translating them for me. They state that all costs of employment should be borne by the employer. But of course that part of the document was not translated into English. Funny that. I understand that you are here to give information that is generally the rule in Thailand but I would hope that you could also do something to shed light on the exploitative nature of the education "business" in Thailand.

Another note on that is that the same document states clearly the minimum salaries for teachers, based on their country of origin. These are also not followed as I have seen so many schools paying much much less. Government schools of course.

The same employer stated after reading the requirements carefully that I and all fellow American ex-pats should call our embassy to complain about our abusive treatment at the hands of Thai education officers. I told him that sounds nice, if you are in a movie, but in real life the embassy would never "go to bat" for us on such issues since diplomacy and trade agreements could be at stake.

Oh and, one more thing.. Please try to tone down the mud-slinging at us qualified teachers at International schools. We have our own "row to hoe". I and many like me have been illegally fired simply because the "high quality" schools we worked for didn't want to keep paying us that high salary. Choosing instead to find a fresh recruit or even a volunteer.

The sad fact is that there are very, very few schools in The Kingdom that are not functioning first and foremost as a business, leaving educational excellence as a marketing phrase only. To put it into a very simple phrase, most international schools in Thailand are only international in the name. Every decision, curriculum, business, human resources, are made by Thais, for Thais, and with only one things in mind - profits for them.

Ajarn.com says - I'm not sure of the laws exactly (if they exist of course) but do you mean the employer is liable for the cost of just the visa or the whole 'visa run' itself, because that would be a very difficult thing to put a price on. I would certainly like to hear from any other teachers who have read the same set of rules though. Secondly, I'm not aware of any 'mud-slinging towards international school teachers' on the website. The true international school teachers - those that earn very good salaries with benefits - rarely / never read ajarn.com anyway. Thirdly, as for 'shedding the light on the exploitative nature of the education business in Thailand', I think there are enough postbox entries, articles and comments on the ajarn.com website to give anyone a decent picture of how things are here. But of course - you need to take the time to read through the site.

Kelly

Just to put my oar in again on the native speaker vs non-native English speaker argument. native speakers can be great teachers or terrible ones… as can NON native speakers. The problem is definitely partly due to the government and schools assuming that native speakers are the only correct option.

Years ago, when I first came to the country to work on a conservation project, then looked for a way to stay here, people told me to teach English, to which I replied that I didn’t know how. “Of course you do - you come from England!” “Well, by that rule, all Thais should be capable of teaching Thai language…” To this, most people then had to concede that they couldn’t in fact teach Thai despite being Thai.

Despite my self-confessed lack of teaching ability, I got a teaching job, and probably messed with a lot of kids’ heads in the early days. But I learnt how to teach, and am now in a position to look at other teachers and comment on their abilities.

And I have to say that there are loads of native speakers out there who have no idea how to grade their language to an appropriate level for their students. There are even plenty of qualified teachers who may have been great at teaching, say, biology, in their home country, but cannot accept that to teach it to non native speakers, they have to change their methods and the way they introduce both concepts and vocabulary.

So it’s not where you come from, but how well you can grasp where your students are coming from.

But it’s true, I’m sure, that part of the problem is the students’ lack of motivation, especially in areas of the country where there are less foreigners. I look back to my own experiences of learning languages at school in the UK - I didn’t see German as very useful - after all, I had never been, and never planned to go, to Germany!

And then a big part of the problem still lies with the Thai concept of learning. Someone said that all their students say “I want to learn English”, and yet seem to put in no effort - well, the education system has taught them that ‘learning’ is just remembering a set of facts or figures. They expect that learning a language involves sitting there and letting the teacher pour the language into their brains. The concept of active learning does not exist for most Thai students of English, and that is the fault of the system, not the students.

Despite this, an increasing number of Thai people DO learn to speak and write English very well. Hats off to them for realising what they have to do, and doing it. I will continue to teach as well as I can, because just a few of my students look like they’re turning into those self-motivated learners - and it’s my job to encourage them.

Lucie

Marvin, you sent a response to Lauren through the ajarn Postbox but I'm afraid a) It was far too long and b) the Postbox is a letters and sometimes comments section, not a discussion forum. Therefore the way you laid out the response, relying heavily on quotes from Lauren's letter, made it too difficult to follow. Sorry, but it would have required an awful lot of editing on my part. Why don't you resubmit the letter but make sure the content is purely your own and doesn't contain numerous quotes from a previous Postbox entry?

Philip (Ajarn.com)

Dear Marvin (The longer I stay here, Ajarn Postbox, 19th October) Your whining is pathetic and puerile. Yes there are numerous incompetent teachers that are hired simply because they are young and attractive. Yes there are numerous schools that simply want to keep up appearances by hiring such teachers. Yes there are older and more experienced teachers that are often better for the job. However, in my short time teaching in Thailand, I have met my fair share of older teachers who have been teaching in Thailand for more than a decade and yet can barely control their class, wander through their lessons aimlessly because they have not set any goals for their students, and are often the most unlikable characters in the staff room.

Your insinuation that school staff members hire cheap teachers so that they can squander the extra money on drinking is uncouth and plain culturally ignorant! Not to mention the fact that you are treading politically dangerous ground by referring to another culture as "black teachers".

Of course native English speakers trump Filipinos when a school is trying to keep up appearances but your personal preference of accents has nothing to do with it. I find some British accents more off-putting and incomprehensible than that of a Filipino and the fact that you couldn't understand this Filipina's pronunciation of the word "Asian" (which is pronounced differently in every Asian country) reveals your intolerant and impatient character as well as your inability to think laterally. I spent many years working in Filipino slums with some of the most impoverished people in the world, yet despite their lack of formal education, some of those people are more proficient in English than you, a teacher, who cannot even spell the word "principal".

Finally, I am downright infuriated by your insinuation that the only reason that young, blonde-haired, blue-eyed teachers are hired is so that the school staff can "get some".

I am 23 years old with blonde hair and blue eyes and I will have you know that I am a well sought after teacher with numerous job offers, not only because school directors may find me attractive but because I have a very good teaching performance record and I am culturally sensitive. If they have found me attractive, I haven't allowed it to be a downfall to me. If my looks gained me a demo lesson, great! I proved myself in those lessons and every lesson thereafter. I am not naive and I quit one school very soon after I realized they were only interested in having me on staff as, in your words, "window dressing". I quit because there is more to me and my teaching career than that. To insinuate that every young, attractive teacher is interested in making money by that notion is ridiculous.

Furthermore, I am one of those "serious" teachers that you mentioned but I also acknowledge the value that is found in educational games and "learning through play", which is currently being widely accepted as the preferred method of teaching in the west. Perhaps it would be advantageous to you to try a little harder to make your students happy. Not because their parents are paying their fees to have you on staff but because it has been proven that students absorb information far more effectively when they are, in fact, happy.

You say that this country will never change but your attitude reeks of someone unwilling to change their ways or adapt to more modern methods of education. I would suggest that the first change you make is towards becoming more culturally sensitive and perhaps willing to please your students and school faculty a little more. This doesn't mean butt-kissing, but a little respect goes a long way.

Lauren

The longer I stay here the more I realize this country is unlikely to change. Now I am not saying that old teachers are the best teachers but I know teachers who have been here for 8 or 9 years and all their experience seems to be pushed aside for a younger crop who are to be fair more handsome and maybe have more energy. I have seen some pretty crappy older teachers but some younger teachers were fired from my school recently because they simply did not make the grade.

In this country, so little is changing except possible more money being thrown at the system. This means that more money is siphoned off while the school gets the cheapest teachers they can and they have their drinking money for the month. White teachers trump Filipinos (but I have to say that I find the Filipino accent off) Recently a Filipino was trying to say Asian and she kept on saying “Ajean”. I couldn’t get it. She said it about 10 times - and in the end had to spell it.

Black teachers are trumped by everyone no matter where they come from unless they are superstar. Blond-haired, blue-eyed young teachers trump everyone. Who the hell cares if they can teach? I wonder if the principle and co-teachers lick their lips and wonder what extracurricular activity they may get or maybe he can teach them English “privately”.

Now Thailand is promoting itself as the ASEAN hub. It is always amazing in this country how little changes except the way they promote themselves. Who would come to Thailand and open a business given their poor English skills and their innate ability to blame someone else for the fact they hardly ever learn (and the laws where you cannot own anything).

It is always amazing to me when the teacher gets “too serious” the teacher gets fired and until that is addressed, the country will never change. As long as teachers are simply 'window dressing' to make the school look good no one will take the job seriously. Who cares if they have a degree? They rarely use it anyway right?

It seems agencies have secured their place this year in many schools and making sure the brown envelopes keep on flowing. The cheapest newbies are recruited and thrown into schools. Most of them anyway. Everyone takes their cut. If anything I have found education here to be getting worse. Most kids are out of control, they know they can get teachers fired on whim, and the “best teachers” are those who are fun or enjoy constantly having fun. Blond-haired and blue-eyed teachers are great. When they go home and mummy asks how the new teacher is and they all reply in a rising whined cry of elation. Who could object? As long as the students are happy right?

Marvin

In reply to China: The Promised Land? (Ajarn Postbox 20th September) Disastrous experiences; yes we’ve all had them. My letters have at various times extolled the virtues of China, but like everywhere else, experiences differ. After doing “extensive research” should it really take one eight months to discover one has been working illegally? Again, wouldn’t the same happen to the “colleague” who was arrested in China for working illegally, in much the same way as would happen in Thailand? (Plus the corruption in equal measures).

No country is a promised land. It’s always a good idea to ask to speak to a teacher already in the school before signing a contract and as for -30 degree winters; I take it your research into northern China made you aware of this? If your school was breaking the terms of your contract I take it you did complain to your coordinator or The Foreign Affairs Department? No? You just did a runner?! As for “parents peering through glass windows”, do you realize you’re probably the first white person they’d ever seen? Did you smile at them, or scowl and wonder why they were unfriendly towards you?

Certainly, Thailand is a very much more open and friendly country and the secretive nature of a closed society after decades of communism reflects this, but as in any country, beware the unscrupulous schools/agencies!

So, really you wanted the Thai friendliness, low working hours, no corruption and 50k+, plus free everything? You simply chose the wrong company/location. I have all the stated previous; it’s not all perfect, there are hiccups along the way, (plus the -30 winters); but I worked for longer than a few months in Thailand to discover that, as in every aspect of life, you have to spend more than a few months somewhere. More often than not, most problems are caused by a matter of attitude or lack of understanding and being unable to adapt to various cultures.

James