I'd like to thank David for his response to my letter concerning Thai nationalism ('Thai Nationalism' Ajarn Postbox 18th October)
His efforts to refute the contents of that letter are commendable. They are also remarkably unconvincing:

“Can you name another country on this planet where people are not nationalistic?”

In my letter, I never asserted or implied that there were any countries on Earth that weren’t nationalistic to one degree or another. Your question is therefore irrelevant.

“Isnt pride in where you are from an inate feeling that probably has some social bonding mechanism that aids survival at a more primevial level?”

Yes, nationalism can be conceptualized as an outgrowth of tribalism and other phenomena existing at a ‘primevial’ [sic] level of social organization.

“I would also argue that nationalism is a negative phrase implying some kind of desire for dominiation of non-nationals, which is unlikely to be the case here.”

What are you basing your argument on? If you’ve read anything about nationalism, you’d know that it doesn’t necessitate a desire for or policy of domination over groups outside the nation-state. Even if it did, you still betray your ignorance of Thai history in your statement. Forgive me for quoting at length:

“Nominalistic policy raised the spectre of irredentism by suggesting that Thai people subject to colonial authorities in Burma and Indochina should become Thai citizens – and thus, implicitly, ‘free’. The patent inspiration behind the vision of a ‘greater Thai empire’ (maha anachak thai) that should ideally incorporate the Shan territories, Laos and western Cambodia was Deutschland as the homeland of peoples of Germanic stock living in Germany as well as Austria and Poland. To promote irredentism, the Ministry of Defence and the Royal Survey Department printed and distributed to schools and barracks historical maps that highlighted the territorial losses suffered at the hands of the British and the French, while the pseudo-scientific racial categories were manipulated to demonstrate the ethnic commonality of the Thais with the Lao and the Shans.

[…] Luang Wichit, acting as the government’s spokesman, asserted: ‘This territory [the Shan territories, Laos and western Cambodia] really belongs to us. It is not a colony, it is not a foreign territory; it is a living place for Thai people of Thai blood’. In January 1941 rhetoric was turned into action when the Thai army seized the western Cambodian provinces…In May 1942, after declaring war on the Allies, Thailand also annexed allegedly lost territory in the Shan States across the border with British Burma. All territories were returned at the end of the war.” – Peleggi, Maurizio. (2007). Thailand: The worldly kingdom, p. 123.

It’s simply not the case that Thailand has never invaded its neighbors and attempted to subjugate them. If you choose to believe the Thai propaganda of the time claiming that these invasions were carried out in the name of ‘freedom’ and ‘liberation’, that’s your choice. In any case, your statement is invalid.

“I find it ironic that an American is writing this attempt to discredit Thai pride with something more sinister, when America is supposed to be the beacon of freedom and Americans are urged to believe in themselves, which they certainly do.”

I addressed the issue of American nationalism and the attempts by educators and others in that country to cultivate so-called ‘patriotic values’ in my first letter. Perhaps you could try reading it again to help clarify things for you.

“Second question, do you really understand Thai culture well enough to be able to state quite categorically that what you perceive is nationalism and the belief of Thais in the perfection of their people?”

Maybe not - I must thank you, though. A part of me really does miss the "do you really understand Thai culture?" and other such mantras I used to hear on a daily basis in Thailand.

Do you understand Thai well enough to really know the subtleties of the language to truly know how the speaker feels?

No, but I don’t understand German, Italian, or Spanish all that well either.

Maybe what you percieve is a desperation not to lose face, after all isn’t that what Thais are infuriatingly famous for?

Yes, I suppose it is.

“Remember what you see on the surface does not necessarily reflect what is felt inside.”

If you’re referring to a sizable segment of the Thai populous, then yes, I concur.

“Maybe you are confusing preserving self pride with facist tendancies”

I never used the word ‘fascist’ in my letter - you did in yours.

“You claim you have never had a satisfactory answer to your question about what objective facts give Thais the right to feel so proud? Well what are you criteria for assessment”

That doesn’t answer my original question.

“…all the things you Americans have to thank us Europeans for”

And we are very thankful. As I recall, there a quite a few things ‘you Europeans’ have to thank ‘us Americans’ for as well, but in order for you to ‘save face’, I’ll refrain from mentioning them.

“As for having no substance, what about the price of a McDonald’s hamburger, there is somethiing that truly has no right to it’s belief in it’s value of over a dollar, when it is worth 4 cents at best.”

I’m sorry, but I neither eat McDonald’s nor do I understand the point of this sentence.

Phil / ajarn.com - thank you for the contribution. Could we now consider this particular Postbox topic closed.

Andrew Woodward

In response to 'Thai Nationalism' (ajarn postbox 18th October 2010) Andy. Let me start with a question. Can you name another country on this planet where people are not nationalistic? Isnt pride in where you are from an inate feeling that probably has some social bonding mechanism that aids survival at a more primevial level? I would also argue that nationalism is a negative phrase implying some kind of desire for dominiation of non-nationals, which is unlikely to be the case here. I find it ironic that an American is writing this attempt to discredit Thai pride with something more sinister, when America is supposed to be the beacon of freedom and Americans are urged to believe in themselves, which they certainly do.

Second question, do you really understand Thai culture well enough to be able to state quite categorically that what you perceive is nationalism and the belief of Thais in the pefection of their people? Do you understand Thai well enough to really know the subtleties of the language to truly know how the speaker feels? Maybe what you percieve is a desperation not to lose face, after all isn't that what Thais are infuriatingly famous for? And if they dont want to face, this implies there is something wrong to make them lose face. Knowing something is wrong or not perfect would surely imply Thais dont feel they are perfect, they simply do not want to be hurt by showing they are not perfect. Remember what you see on the surface does not necessarily reflect what is felt inside. Maybe you are confusing preserving self pride with facist tendancies.

You claim you have never had a satisfactory answer to your question about what objective facts give Thais the right to feel so proud? Well what are you criteria for assessment. I am certain they will be based on Western values, technological and scientific advancement, a fair society, well developed legal systems etc (all the things you Americans have to thank us Europeans for). Maybe Thais do not judge their country in the way that Westerners judge theirs. They may have different criteria and to regard their criteria as anything other than different is arrogant.

As for having no substance, what about the price of a McDonald's hamburger, there is somethiing that truly has no right to it's belief in it's value of over a dollar, when it is worth 4 cents at best.

Dave

Let me confess right at the beginning that I am over 60 years old. I have taught in several countries and have taught within several different areas of study (Psychology, Business, English). I have two advanced degrees. I consider myself to be, above all else, a good, possibly talented, teacher. I am writing this to express some personal feelings that may or may not have general import. To be honest, thought, I feel I am pointing to problems that are having a serious impact on the teaching/learning process in Thailand.

After 15 months in Thailand I have reached some surprising conclusions. I now see that the image of a very astute and, some would say, inscrutable people, have, in fact, developed some habits that put them in a light that is not so bright and shining. Such details as the cleanliness (or lack thereof) of the land and water they use and the business practices they generally employ display an approach to everyday life that is short sighted and, I’m afraid, crassly money driven. However, I am speaking outside my “chair” in making such comments. I know education and teaching and learning and I know for sure that Thailand is sorely lacking in their approach to the educational enterprise.

Now, though, I want to home in on one very specific aspect of education within Thailand – namely, the prevailing approach to utilizing teachers. From what I have observed this country has moved strongly toward what I perceive, again, as an essentially money obsessed , cheap is better hiring scheme. I have seen this in public universities as well as private, and, most glaringly, in the language schools that dot the land.

One sign of this is the employment practices that, in effect, block out more experienced teachers for obvious reasons of age, but, I believe it also comes back to the obsession with a bottom line. As to the age question, it has been shocking to experience the “ageism” present here, in a part of the world where the concept of veneration of age and experience has, over the years, been presented as endemic within the various cultures. The specific example of a law that requires all faculty and staff at public universities to retire at 60 is so patently counterproductive to a society as to strain credulity. But, no one blinks an eye about this policy, a policy that flies in the face of utilizing wisdom – that is, the gathered benefit of living long enough to have gained training and experience and then the ability to put that into a context that benefits those being taught. I find it just amazing that this policy and attendant attitude is present in a country such as Thailand. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when the deliberations about this law were taking place.

Education is unique in its requirements as to the need for both artistic (teachers are performers) and scientific (teachers must know what they are talking about) abilities. Experience is, within this context, irreplaceably valuable. Thus, when combining the philosophy of cheaper is better with a diminished appreciation for potential wisdom, Thailand is getting the short term hit of a lot of teaching but they are thereby missing the true value of a real education.

M.Benson

I'm wondering about all the bitterness from Thailand teachers. Y'all are a bile-filled lot. I guess there's something about teaching in Thailand that makes you that way but I still have to wonder. I've taught in both of the Chinas (ROC & PRC) and have felt the culture shock, all three waves, and there's nothing more load-lightening than a good ol' bitch session with the other foreigners. But most of us, and I've talked to people teaching in Korea and Japan as well, just accept the differences in culture and get on with enjoying life in these great places.

Case in point: I have no illusions about any of my students becoming fluent in English any time before they go abroad and live in an English-speaking country. I'm happy that they can parrot back what I tried to dump in their little brains at the end of the week. I teach them the tests before they take it, I smile at the parents and tell them they're kid is great, punch my card and head to the mountains or the bar for the weekend. The retarded traffic, the unaware pedestrians, the spit and betel nut juice on the sidewalk, giant cockroaches, whatever; it's not going to get in the way of me enjoying the fact that I live in a great little tropical country where the living is cheap.

Maybe the difference is this: I, and many of my friends, are under no illusion that we are teachers or teaching. If we wanted to teach we would have gone to a country where the language of instruction was our own native tongue, and we would have taught a subject that we were passionate about. Did any of you really come to Asia to change young minds and make a difference in a child's life? You should have gotten that delusion excised before you even bought your plane ticket.

I'd love to work in Thailand. Thanks to the bitter folk who have warned me away from teaching in the municipal schools (I'll stick to the mall franchises). I like the country. I think I know the Asian mindset well enough. I know what my life would be like back in North America and I'm happy to have been given the chance to live a different one. Maybe some of you should think about that or try to go back and make it in your homeland. It's just a job.

Ell Tee

Ajarn.com - Thailands number one TEFL website helping crusty old sex tourists find employment since 1999.
Love the website, its a really great place to find low paying crap jobs. I think I would rather take my degree and put it to good use. Teaching English in Thailand is the pits and what a waste of time. Can't hack life back home, then come and visit ajarn.com for a waster's dream ticket. This website is full of crusty old expats casting their opinions on things they really know f*** all about.... it's called Ajarn Street. Nothing better to do and must have such a boring existance in the TEFL graveyard. Can't afford a whore so kill time writing an article on this crap site. Love the site, keep up the great work!

Phil says "the key word is definitely 'crusty'. I guess it was a slow day at someone's office but it's always nice to get positive feedback about the website. It makes life all the more worthwhile.

Hiding behind a PC

The views expressed herein aren’t those of an embittered, disgruntled expat. It’s not my aim to sink to the level of the ad hominem and fire insults at the people of Thailand, who are, at least in my experience, among the kindest if not the most defensive people on the globe. My intention is rather to propose some ideas that may help to account for the feelings of peculiarity and marked shock that many farang as well as non-Thai Asians experience during prolonged stays in the Kingdom of Thailand.

It should first be noted that Thailand has a culture that is either unwilling or unable to engage in self-reflection or self-critique. This is an inherent aspect of Thai culture, and is deeply rooted in the history of the country. From the time they are born, the people of Thailand are instilled with the belief that they are perfect and incapable of making any mistakes – an outgrowth and consequence of this myth is the ludicrous policy of never telling students that their answers are wrong, a policy that’s dutifully enforced even at institutions of higher learning. (The way in which this policy is supposed to facilitate the process of learning is something the educational authorities have never bothered to explain.)

The inability to self-reflect has proved conducive to the promulgation of an absurd form of nationalism that’s based more on myth and the colorful imaginations of bureaucratic elites and other higher-ups in the silly pyramids shown everywhere in Thailand than on any actual historical record. The promotion of a nationalist ethos is not, of course, unique to Thailand; as an American, the cultivation of so-called “patriotic values” beginning at a very young age is a phenomenon with which I’m quite familiar. However, there is a fundamental difference – alongside the reputable aspects of America, as students we also learned about the more reprehensible and egregious chapters of our history (e.g., slavery, the atrocities committed against Native Americans, racism and xenophobia, the use of nuclear weapons against the Japanese, etc.). In Thailand, to even imply the existence of a less than 100% perfect or “happy” aspect of Thai history and culture would border on something akin to blasphemy, or worse.

The more important question – and one to which I was never given a valid answer while living in Thailand – is this: What objective fact exists to fuel Thai nationalism? What is there to sustain this myth of Thai perfection and greatness in the hearts and minds of the Thai people? The answer lies partially in the fact that, despite all superficial appearances, Thailand remains a closed society (with the exception, of course, of the allowances made to farang who wish to come and spend their money there or direct the development of the kingdom’s chronically dilapidated infrastructure).

As a closed society, the people of Thailand are indoctrinated into the belief that they are uniquely special, nay superior, vis-à-vis everyone else on the planet. It doesn’t matter that there isn’t a shred of evidence to support this belief because requiring evidence implies a questioning of the belief in the first place, and questioning anything about what they have been told to believe by their nationalist caretakers is simply not something the vast majority of Thai people would ever do.

Andrew Woodward

I am from Canada, and I have been teaching here for 6 years part time. Most of the time my contracts are there, everything is great and work is fine. I just arrived to start my teaching time here in Thailand and was offered a 5-week intensive training contract in Trang. My specialty is hospitality. The intensive program was in Hospitality Training at the big resort outside Trang.

The school offered me the job over the phone and by email. We talked several times and I felt good about it. They asked me to get to Trang ASAP, so I bought a train ticket with no offer to help with the cost. Then the school said oh, you need to fly here please. I said the ticket was expensive, so they offered to pay half. But didnt mention that I would lose half the cost for the train ticket. I arrived 5 days after accepting the job. The school was to source or arrange for an apartment. When I arrive there is nothing set up, the whole day is spent looking for an apartment for 5 weeks, the school seems annoyed that I would like to have a fridge in the apartment as nowhere seems to offer a fridge. I finally settle on buying a cold box. I pay for 1 month plus deposit. I feel a bit put off that they didnt offer to pay for the apartment if I fulfilled the contract...Oh the contract...Still didnt sign anything, still going on faith..like we do in Canada, because people dont rip you off in the work environment. The wages were discussed, hourly and for the total program. But when I calculated it, the wages were much less then what I was being told. I was feeling this HAD to be dealt with. So when the Thai boss was alone I showed her the calculation and said this is 250 baht per hour by your way, not 350 baht an hour...oh, she said..yes, well the school has added more people and were losing money on the contract..its okay you work for 250? I said no, not really, you promised 350 several times and in BKK before I left, now I am here its not fair you change the wage. I said you should honour the original agreement. She thought about it a bit and said okay.

The next day she gave me the contract to be signed, it was very unclear about hours of work, details of the teaching schedule and very one sided. All the clauses were about things not done by the teacher, like not going to work, or swearing in class, but nothing about the school not giving me materials to teach, or the school witholding salary..etc. I felt uneasy about one particular clause...it read that if for any reason, any reason at all that the client cancelled the contract, so would my agreed contract for 5 weeks pay also be cancelled.

I meant to bring it up, but then things got faster and faster and the school had clearly stated they would provide the lesson plans, not me. On Sunday night at 8 pm I am told they didnt make a lesson plan and did I have any ideas? Tomorrow is the first day of the program, the first day to impress the client, and the school has done absolutely nothing..again..strange feeling...I pull together some ideas and try to get a good rest, I am teaching the entire day from 9 am to 5 pm.

I arrive at the school with the husband of the Thai who is from England, I am from Canada. We do have differences in our speech. The students are slow to arrive and I only have 5 out of 20 students. I am starting a warm up with greetings. The husband's boss starts rolling his eyes and shaking his head as he observes me. This was what he said he was doing for the day...observing my teaching to offer support or changes at the end of the day..I feel disrupted everytime I look over his way, he is showing disapproval all the time.. I have only been there 20 minutes. Next thing, he gets up and takes over..no problem, I dont mind..show me what you would like..BUT the part that gets me is he teaches the students to say:

What duh yuh do?...Not...What do you do?...he tells the students there is no need to pronounce everyword..just say the sentence quickly and people will understand?

Really?...The second class starts and I begin the warm up again, students are shy, afraid, not ready and I like them to warm up with English greetings and feel relaxed and ready to learn. This time the husband comes up and starts to tell me in front of the entire class that I am doing a very poor job and to stop the lesson right now and go to a work sheet. I refused. I told him the lesson was a 2 minute warm up and the students could finish first and we would go to the worksheet next. Then the husband said, well I think your finished right now...and I said no, I will finish the class and then you can take over or do what you want. He said fine, your fired.

So ...here I am now with an apartment rented for one month, no income, no proper discussion about anything, just paid to come all the way here, didnt sign the contract or ask for one first in Bangkok, but came here on faith, only to be fired within 2 hours of the first day..and you know what happened??? They fired me, because the client demanded they find a hospitality NES, they did, and then fired me, so they could say that they would teach the course and pocket the whole contract themselves..the whole thing was just a big fat lie and I was the dumb one for not getting the contract dealt with...so once again teachers...get the contract first.

sheryl

It really isn't ready.

And the problem is two-fold and because of the levels that I teach at, I can see where the problems lay. I teach first to fourth grade.

Firstly there are MoE budgets and the policing of native speaker teachers and the constant changing of goal posts for what is a relatively small salary. How about a clear mandate on what is supposed to be taught and in what flavour of English? It seems far more important to me than sitting a Thai culture course and having to travel to Bangkok to get a teachers license. Then there's the almost total absence of phonics and basic letter writing in kindergarten. Those years are largely wasted. More than 70% of the English language can be read and pronounced using phonics, but the kids here are largely taught whole word recognition.

This means that first grade gets hit straight away because so much of what should have taken place in kindergarten has to be squeezed into each term. 50+ class sizes with 50 minute periods also make it nigh on impossible for one-to-one verbal interaction and this means that rather than learning English, students learn 'about' it. Lots of students per class equals lots of papers to mark which equals gap fills and multiple choice tests because they're easier to mark.

So, we skip happily through first, second and third grade, without any of the students being able to produce free form language of their own, verbal or written, and only having the ability to answer basic yes or no questions. They might be competent with notebooks, workbooks and worksheets, but they're still not actively using any of the language, beyond funny and cool words like Mr. Bean and Ben 10.

And then they hit fourth grade where past, present and future tenses are suddenly introduced and it leaves at least 50% of them dead in the water. Fourth grade should really be a two year course, with half of it focused entirely on listening and speaking.

I've also taught fifth and sixth grade where the English becomes even more complex and impossible to use in active conversation. And then they move on up to their teenage years where they get the A to Z of English grammar day in, day out. How incredibly dull and boring it must be for them. And again, they're not learning English, they're learning 'about' it.

And the end result of all of this? A noticeable percentage of Thais who can get the gist of what you are saying but cannot reply in kind, beyond yes, no or don't know.

Mr Oh, Thailand

Hey fellow teachers/ajarns! Check it out. First of all one and a half hours for delivery at 200 Baht delivery charge!!! Yes I do live what they consider the Thonburi side of the river. I live near The Mall Bangkae. Umm! It took me about 45-60 minutes to travel to the old Immigration office during rush hour. Then the first lady couldn't speak English so she had to put me on hold until the English speaking Thai woman could take my information and to tell me this is a 200.00 Baht fee for delivery because I live so far away. What is ajarn.com's connection here Phil besides the advertisement fee you are paid? I think I got to run with this one. Cheers!

Phil says "Dear Elvis Presley (I'm so glad to hear you are alive) Firstly, Food By Phone doesn't pay me a penny for advertising on the ajarn site. I give them a few free impressions ads because they very kindly sponsor a monthly ajarn.com competition where someone can win a 1,000 baht gift voucher to spend at a nice Sukhumwit restaurant. It's an exchange agreement. I personally make absolutely nothing on the deal. But a lucky ajarn reader (perhaps even a teacher) does get to enjoy a nice meal and a night out I suppose. I don't wish to sound disrespectful, but Food By Phone's target market is undoubtedly middle income and higher income expats living in the Sukhumwit Road area who come home from a hard day at the office, and don't fancy eating another microwave meal as they gaze at that wonderful skyline from the balcony of their 27th floor luxury condo. So they pick up the phone and have a nice Indian curry delivered or maybe something Mexican or something Japanese. I would guess that FBP are not keen on having one of their delivery boys tied up for an hour plus as they battle their way over to Bang Khae and back with a chicken masala and a couple of popadoms. It just doesn't make good business sense. Perhaps the 200 baht is to 'put people off. In your case, it sounds as if it worked. Philip has left the building"

Elvis Presley

I could never quite figure it out. They give me a one-year visa, and then tell me to come back every 90 days to confirm I am still here. One of the mysteries of the Land of Smiles, I guess. But my 4th 90-day slip runs out about a week ahead of my year-long visa. Last year the secretary phoned the visa office and asked if it would be ok to let it ride for the extra week until I came to do the visa, and they said fine, and no problems later. This year we did the same thing. And then when we showed up for the new visa, and gave them the 90-day renewal form, they got all huffy about the law is the law - and nailed me for 2000 baht because it was about a week late. I've also been tagged 600 baht per for my last couple of Amazon parcels - maybe there's a new 'steal from the farangs at every opportunity' drive going on - just a heads up to be sure to dot your i's and like that if you're thinking of letting a 90-dayer go for a few days.

Dave Patterson