Are you a teacher who once taught in Thailand but decided to seek out pastures new? Has the grass been greener on the other side? Maybe you swapped Thailand for the financial lure of Japan or Korea? Read about those who have left Thailand, and their reasons for moving...
Aaron
Q1. Where did you move to and when?
Back to the United States, December 7, 2012.
Q2. How long did you work in Thailand?
For almost exactly four years.
Q3. What was your main reason for moving?
Thailand has a number of problems that are not going away, and some of the biggest obstacles are part and parcel of the Kingdom's attitude toward public education: there is an intensely rigid class system which is readily apparent in Thai art, as seen at the Grand Palace, as demonstrative of an incredibly hierarchical concept of social relations. Also, there are many great mysteries the country will face politically. I shouldn't elaborate here, as that would be most un-Thai.
Q4. What are the advantages of working where you are now compared to Thailand?
Predictability, professionalism, pro-active attitudes (that are not encumbered by a fantasia of disorganized activity) make life much more predictable and comfortable in terms of consumer welfare. There isn't a political apparatus in which accountability is the very most insignificant consideration. Human welfare actually does occur to some of the local population as a consideration.
Q5. What do you miss about life in Thailand?
Cheap taxis and hotels (don't be fooled, those are Thailand's only bargains...everything else is quite expensive). I miss the beaches I could never afford to visit.
Q6. Would you advise a new teacher to seek work in Thailand or where you are now?
I would advise a new teacher who has some chops and knows it to seek private lessons and a long-term visa through an agent. Thailand's schools rank (according the World Economic Forum's Global Competitiveness Survey) as among the very worst schools in Southeast Asia: Indonesia, Vietnam and Malaysia outperform Thailand by significant percentages. This means that Thailand offers better salaries to workers without work permits (unless you're Burmese, a quick bribe will nearly always handle matters) than to those with permits.
Q7. Any plans to return to Thailand one day?
Vacations are nice, but Thailand is nothing short of a hell-hole for those uninitiated and who understand that tropical tourism destinations rarely make quality work refuges.
Q8. Anything else you'd like to add?
Thailand is a disaster of a country: floods that they can hardly manage (I believe their last initiative was to turn on a bunch of boat engines and hope the water flows out of the Chao Praya faster), political vultures and citizenry that trusts itself about as much as a Russian Gypsy trusts a Kremlin shopkeeper. It is ranked by the Political and Economic Risk Consultancy as one of Asia's riskiest countries. I worked in Korea for one year before I moved to Thailand. In my mind, Korea is a golden paradise of rationality compared with Thailand. Good luck to those foolish enough (without hope).
Jim
Q1. Where did you move to and when?
I moved to Nanjing, China in August of 2011.
Q2. How long did you work in Thailand?
I lived and worked in Bangkok for roughly 9 1/2 years.
Q3. What was your main reason for moving?
I wanted specific experience in a specific international curriculum that was not available to me in Bangkok. Kind of a Catch-22 situation. I couldn't get into the schools I wanted to work at without this experience, but couldn't get the experience there without already having it. So I had to leave to get it.
Q4. What are the advantages of working where you are now compared to Thailand?
The aforementioned professional experience and development, the opportunities it should hopefully allow to materialize in the future, and the money. It was strictly a choice made to enhance my career possibilities.
Q5. What do you miss about life in Thailand?
Seeing my fiance regularly, friends, food, nightlife, weather, people, ease of everyday life, beach getaways to Phuket or mountain escapes to Chiang Mai/Rai, cleanliness (yes, Chinese cleaners don't have any idea of what cleaning is) and the inexpensiveness of it all. Bangkok is better in nearly every way in my opinion. The only thing better in Nanjing is that it does have a proper Spring and Autumn, which is nice and it is a fairly pedestrian friendly city with real sidewalks to walk on. Watch out for the cars and electric bikes though.
Q6. Would you advise a new teacher to seek work in Thailand or where you are now?
It depends on what they teach. I would definitely advise against coming here to teach ESL. I just don't see the salaries as being very good for that here. You couldn't live well in my opinion on the salaries they offer. If they want to enjoy life then they shouldn't come here to Nanjing. If they want to come and work at an international school or at a Chinese school running an international curriculum then it is a different story. In that case if they want to earn money, advance their careers, and just see something different for a couple years then they should keep the option on the table. Nanjing probably isn't all that bad actually, but after nearly 10 years in Bangkok this place just isn't doing it for me.
Q7. Any plans to return to Thailand one day?
Absolutely. This is a temporary thing. A three year hitch and then I'll try to get into a good international school with solid curriculum experience and a professional leadership position under my belt. I also have a Thai fiance and we own and operate a small business in Bangkok, which is doing fairly well.
Q8. Anything else you'd like to add?
I get a pretty decent one bedroom apartment in the city near my job paid for by the school. An annual flight home to the United States, good health care coverage and an after tax income of about 118,000 baht a month. I am here to work and that's what I do so I'm saving about 95-100,000 baht a month in additon to getting great experience. My school has paid for me to do professional development in Hong Kong twice and KL, I'll go to Africa on a school trip for two weeks and I get 11 weeks paid vacation a year. But it is a really challenging job and there are high expectations. It is a high profile teaching job and and highly scrutinized with mutiple lesson observations a year by multiple people, work scrutiny by peers, meetings out the kazoo, a million people to please, many of them unreasonable...you get the idea. I start the work day at 7:30 am and although I am free to leave at 3:30pm I usually leave around 5:30 or 6 on average and stay as late as 8pm often. This is a big reason why I save 100,000 baht a month. I go home and fall face first on my bed.
Thomas
Q1. Where did you move to and when?
I moved from Thailand to China, a couple of hours outside of Shanghai, this past September.
Q2. How long did you work in Thailand?
For three years - mainly at one school in Khon Kaen
Q3. What was your main reason for moving?
I guess you could say I just got tired of the Thai runaround that goes on at most schools such as the lack of clear, direct communication. Also got tired of the big emphasis on appearance with the lack of any real substance behind it. But at the same time I am grateful for the teaching experience it gave me during those three years and the connections I made with some of the students while there.
Q4. What are the advantages of working where you are now compared to Thailand?
Well first of all I teach 16 classes a week at a government university and I only have to be there when I am teaching. The rest of the time is my own. Another plus is the students here are very well behaved so I do not have to put really any time and energy into dealing with their behavior like you usually have to do in Thai schools.
I am paid about the same as when I was teaching in Thailand but they provide me with excellent free housing on campus that includes electricity and internet so my only real expense is food. I already have a private student and I get $30 an hour which for the most part is the going rate here on the more developed coastal areas of China. Also so far my communication with the Chinese administration here has been great. If I have any questions they answer it clearly and directly. Also if there is anything I need for the classroom or the house I live in they quickly provide it.
They really seem to want to keep me happy while I am living and working here while sometimes in Thailand it would feel like the opposite. So overall it is much more professional environment then in Thailand. But at the same time one has to be careful coming to China to teach for the first time. It is a huge country so the environment and the condition of the jobs here can really vary. Probably the best way to get your feet wet here is to find a university job somewhat near the developed coastal areas of China then go from there, which is what I am doing.
Q5. What do you miss about life in Thailand?
I miss the weather, (it is cold here) the culture (the Chinese culture revolution did a job on their culture) and the women (most Chinese women are not so dark and slim like a lot of Thai woman are). So on a personal level there are some things I do miss at times about Thailand but on a professional level, it is actually a relief not to be working in Thailand - for now at least. Oh yeah, I do not miss the crazy way Thais drive or even how they cross the street. In the part of China I am in, they actually obey the traffic laws and drive as good as they do back in the West - which has really surprised me.
Q6. Would you advise a new teacher to seek work in Thailand or where you are now?
Thailand is actually not a bad place to start out teaching but long term I am not so sure, unless your fortunate enough to find one of those few "paradise" type of jobs you hear about now and then. So if you can move on to something else or somewhere else after a few years it is probably best. But not everyone is able to do that, especially if you are tied down with the wife, the kids and the dog. Then you just have to make the best of it. But during my time in Thailand I would always hear people say 'Thailand is a great place to go on vacation or retire to, but to live here and work as a teacher is another story. And from my experience, that is definitely true.
Q7. Any plans to return to Thailand one day?
Oh yeah for sure. I love Thailand. I still have Thai and foreign friends back there and I am planning to spend my two-month summer vacation during July and August there. But going back to Thailand to teach? No, thanks.
Q8. Anything else you'd like to add?
In general we all have three basic choices in difficult or challenging situations in life - change it, leave it or accept it as it is. In my case I could not change the situation that was going on at the school I was teaching at and I think that is true of most schools in Thailand. And then I got to the point were I could no longer accept it as it was so I decided to leave and go teach in China.
The worse thing to do is to stay in a situation and just complain about it instead of making one of those three choices because you'll just end up making yourself and others unhappy. So those are my last little words of wisdom and good luck to all past, present and future teachers in Thailand because teaching and living there can be both heaven and hell - but enjoy the ride.
Jay
Q1. Where did you move to and when?
I moved back to the US (California) in May 2012.
Q2. How long did you work in Thailand?
The second term of 2010 - 11 school year and the entire 2011-12 school year.
Q3. What was your main reason for moving?
Most of my reasons for moving back were ill-conceived. I had a lot of rationales for returning but only two of them have ended up making sense. Those two things are completing / renewing my expired teaching credential (still waiting for that to get processed) and to spend some quality time with my elderly mother. I also thought I would get a good job and save money, because as many people describing their experiences here have said, there is no way to save money in Thailand (unless you get into a good international school). But I can't find work here, the economy in CA sucks. I thought I missed the States but that ended up not being the case. I arrived at SFO and immediately got the blues.
Q4. What are the advantages of working where you are now compared to Thailand?
Well, if you get a good job, you can save money here. I have not begun teaching here yet, so I can't currently compare teaching here to teaching in Thailand. Although, I do have experience teaching in CA, it was a long time ago. Presently, I only qualify to be an assistant teacher and these jobs pay extremely low wages and have short hours. The US respects teachers even less than Thailand.
Q5. What do you miss about life in Thailand?
I miss real Thai massage ($60 per hour in the US), Thai street food, my friends - both farrang and Thai, the happy spirit of the Thai people, speaking Thai, Molam music, photographing the streets and urban landscapes, beautiful and friendly women, food, food, food, and did I mention food? Oh, and clothes that fit me (I am small). I generally speaking miss shopping in Thailand...funny cause I always hated shopping in America..
Q6. Would you advise a new teacher to seek work in Thailand or where you are now?
Well, I would ditto most of the comments / answers to this question I have read: Thailand is great for getting experience, but at some point it is probably better to move on. Thailand is great for experimenting and trying new techniques. I would say this, and I haven't seen this in any of the other comments: you are very lucky if you are working in a school that hasn't set you up to lose. Period. It is that bad. If you succeed, you make them look bad. The English teachers at the larger institutions, like my last high school, are set in their ways (and those ways are not good for the students), mostly unfriendly (except the typical fake smiles crap) and will stab you in the back.
Q7. Any plans to return to Thailand one day?
Yes, I love Thailand and I miss my friends and the country already. I just don't miss my last high school.
Q8. Anything else you'd like to add?
If you have a BA and are a native speaker of English, and your only goal is to teach for a year or so, do not take a TESOL class. You will not make enough in Thailand to justify the cost. If you care about being a quality teacher and want to teach in the long term, ok. But you can learn good techniques and methodology by observing competent teachers, reading and just plain experience.
Tyler
Q1. Where did you move to and when?
Moving to China or possibly Korea next.
Q2. How long did you work in Thailand?
A little longer than a year.
Q3. What was your main reason for moving?
I left when the floods hit Bangkok but the "no fail" policy set out by the Thai schools had been wearing on me for some time. They were constantly asking about how things could be improved but never acted on my advice.
For example: in the school I taught in, 2--3 different teachers would teach the exact same subject to the exact same class but at different times. There was no direction from the head of the English department (a Thai) and none of the teachers would communicate to each other about what they were doing. When I proposed a solution, they just shrugged it off.
Q4. What are the advantages of working where you are now compared to Thailand?
The pay you get in Thailand is very low. Yes, it helps that food and living in Thailand is cheap but not all schools will cover expenses such as visas, room and board, etc. The little amount of money you make gets used up surprisingly fast with these expenses that are often covered by schools in other countries.
The pay you get in Thailand will be enough for you to get by comfortably. If you would like to go home for the holidays, you'll have a hard time of it.
I suggest getting private students on the side. You can make good money doing this.
Q5. What do you miss about life in Thailand?
I miss so much about Thailand. At the top of the list is the food. Once I was able to withstand the full level of Thai spicy, I have had trouble finding Thai food that compares.
I also miss how cheap everything is. A meal on the street for one dollar, that often tastes great. A 20 min taxi ride across town for only five dollars. A giant, two story, three bedroom house for only three hundred dollars a month.
And who can't help but miss the beautiful south of Thailand? From the famous islands of Phi Phi to the lesser known islands.
Q6. Would you advise a new teacher to seek work in Thailand or where you are now?
Teaching in Thailand is a good experience. Thai kids are unbelievably cute and fun. However, if you are expecting to make a difference in the kids lives beyond entertaining them, I don't recommend it.
The Thai people do not like confrontation of any kind. They love to talk about you behind your back though. Because of the aversion to confrontation (and possibly for money reasons too), they have a no fail policy for their students.
You can have a student who hardly shows up to your class and when he does, he goofs off the whole time. Then, when he is taking his tests (not administered by you), the Thai teachers help him to cheat on the test. And, if he still gets bad marks on his test, even with the Thai teachers spoon feeding him the answers, he will still get an above average grade on his test -- even if you write down that he failed.
This is the root of the problem, I believe. If students who didn't get results, or even try, and they had to go home to their parents and face the music, some progress could be made.
Q7. Any plans to return to Thailand one day?
Of course. Most likely for vacation though.
Q8. Anything else you'd like to add?
If you do wind up buying a motorbike, be very careful. The Thais are crazy drivers. Many people get injured/killed regularly in automobile accidents in Thailand. On one night alone (New Years Eve) there were 150 automobile related deaths and 300 injuries. This was just from one night and only from automobiles.
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