Geoff Richards

The dross and the dregs

The truth always hurts


Teaching forum threads and posts have inspired me to write in the past, but never before has an ajarn.com blog brought me to the keyboard. And no wonder it was posted anonymously as a guest article. This piece is dedicated to the author of ‘Why can't Thais speak English?' and every respondent who made a negative reply to it.

For those that did, you can be rest assured that you will find the following piece of simplicity uncomfortable. The truth always hurts. Alternatively, if you work for an international school, on a better English Program or at a school where students frequently score highly in speaking competitions and win places on overseas exchange programs, then this should hopefully have you nodding your head with glee.

What I saw in that blog and the negative replies to it were what I call the dross and the dregs of NES teachers on the Thai circuit. Allow me to provide an outline of these worthless characters, none of whom I can proudly state that I work with:

1. The first and the worst: people whose only reason for being here is that they have a Thai partner. Would you, par example, want a Frenchman teaching your children French back home, just because he had a significant other who just happened to come from the same country as you?

2. Second best: people who hold a TEFL or a CELTA but have failed to realise that their qualification was designed for teaching Europeans and South Americans and stick to their principles without stopping to think why it is that their methods work with only a relatively small number of students. Would you, yok tua yang, want to learn Thai from someone who only knew how to teach it to Asians?

3. Third class: people who have a Thai partner and have had to take a TEFL or CELTA because teaching English is the only way that they can afford to stay here. Would you, for example, want either you or your children to study with a teacher who had no genuine interest in their job?

A bad workman blames his tools. I don't need to dread to think what a terrible impact the dross and the dregs have had on learning English here, because I've had hands-on experience of helping to repair the remains when I've tutored young adults in the past.

To conclude: if you truly believe that Thais are poor at learning English, then your teaching method is in serious need of a radical overhaul. Better still, just leave Thailand and go and fail somewhere else instead. Bye, bye.



Comments

Good reply, James. Thanks.

While being the land of smiles, sadly, Thailand is also the land of arranged marriages in everything but name.

Foreigners provide the finance, the locals provide the looks.

Need I go on?!

:o)

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (4th July 2013)

Dross there certainly is, not to mention the drug addicts, alcoholics and sexpats. Yet the typical Thai way is to blame everybody else for difficulties that arise. (Many people take their TEFL in Thailand where the emphasis is on Thai culture).

You Geoff, blame the teachers and then say, “But real change will not be made unless the Ministry of Education initiates a complete, and appropriate, reformation of the educational system in this country.” Competing against iphones and hormones in the classroom is always going to be difficult, add to that a no fail policy plus the corruption and perhaps that’s nearer to where the fault lies?

Why is it that the same teachers you disparage work in Vietnam, China and elsewhere, but those countries education and results are much higher? ASEAN will show how far Thailand is behind everyone else and no doubt the Farang will be to blame. Seems like you’re the only good teacher in Thailand Geoff?!

By James, China (4th July 2013)

Excellent response and excellent observations, Doug.

Have yourself a great day!

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (19th June 2013)

The vast majority of Thai students are not privileged enough to attend schools with qualified foreign teachers and well designed and supported curricula. English education in Thailand is at a generally poor level because of the failings of the educational system as a whole, I think.

In regards to foreign teachers, there are some highly skilled language teachers working in the state system. but having classes of forty to fifty students, seen only once a week is....well it should be obvious that there is little a foreigner can do to ameliorate such a situation. This problem is often, though not always, compounded by having in the class a Thai English teacher whose proficiency is at a lower level than the course material demands. The system has failed the students...

I teach at a university where most students have very low levels of communicative competency in English. However, many of them are bright and motivated to learn. I agree with Geoff that it is the teacher's responsibility to adapt his or her methods to the teaching/learning context. But real change will not be made unless the Ministry of Education initiates a complete, and appropriate, reformation of the educational system in this country.

Can Thais learn English? Yes, of course they can. Will we see any change in policy and practice? Perhaps, though past precedent does curtail my optimism.

Did the article entitled "Why can't Thais speak English?" bring out the "dross and the dregs", as Geoff calls them? I'd have to agree with Goeff here in that it brought out some jaded figures, of which there many still teaching away despite their negativity. Let's hope they don't bring the negativity to the classroom. The students are facing an uphill battle as it is.

By Doug, Bangkok (19th June 2013)

I thought it was funny.... ;)

By gordon, isaan (4th February 2013)

@ MarkC

And your comments seem to defend the other blog.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (26th November 2012)

As far as I can see, the only difference between this "blog" and the "negative comments" you're complaining about on the "Why can't Thais speak English" blog is that it's slightly more long winded. Blaming a handful of "dregs" for the poor English ability oF an entire nation is drawing a rather long bow IMO.

By MarkC, Exile (25th November 2012)

@ David.

My blog highlight negatives but otherwise it's very much positive.

It's a call to make the most of what you have instead of criticising it, which is all that the anonymous blog does.

Which begs the questions, do you agree with the other blog and/or did you make a negative post in it?

If not, I fail to see what the purpose of your dialogue is in here.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (22nd October 2012)

@ Geoff,

I just don't get the point of your blog. You state the reason was to combat a negative thread but you fail by listing in what you deem to be a list of negative views. I have no problem with freedom of speech and your views are valid. I assume given your distain for the above you think only a teacher with an education degree should teach, again I this is an assumption based on your post and comments.

Am I right to judge you? no is the answer and let's be honest your thread is no better than the first one which was full of negative stereo typical views because I see nothing postitive to counter in your post.

Nothing against you Geoff, I just think you missed a chance not to decend into the negative and maybe counter with a more positive outlook on the subject.

By David, Bangkok (21st October 2012)

@ David

Nowhere have I stated that I'm perfect.

This blog is intended as an alternative to the anonymous blog. An eye opener to the blinkered masses.

I should be amazed by the number of people who have come out in defence of the other blog, directly or indirectly, by slating this one, but I'm not.

It's become like a "Raise your hand" exercise to many people who so clearly made negative posts in support of said blog.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (21st October 2012)

quote " What I saw in that blog and the negative replies to it were what I call the dross and the dregs of NES teachers on the Thai circuit. Allow me to provide an outline of these worthless characters, none of whom I can proudly state that I work with "

Simply by writing the above you defeat you own argument. There is good and bad in every walk of life and the hardest thing in life is to be humble enough to state that nobody not least yourself is perfect.

There are many reasons why Thai's in general can't or won't speak English and only when we have the answers will we find that pot of gold.

By David, Bangkok (21st October 2012)

@ James

IMHO, it's only a joke to people who fail to realise that English is a compulsory subject here and that therefore 'a' percentage of students are unlikely to ever excel at it.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (18th October 2012)

anyone that teaches in thailand is here for their own gain anyone serious about education would not not last a week in thailand .It will be exactly the same in ten years time no learning only sanook.Thailand is a joke if you want to teach.

By james, bangkok (18th October 2012)

Noted, Philip. Thanks.

Readers should take note that this piece is an alternative to the anonymous blog and nothing else.

Thanks.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (14th October 2012)

The comments section for this blog has descended into an on-line argument so I'm only going to accept anything that qualifies as a bona fide comment on the actual blog. As I've said before, these comment sections are not discussion forums.

Thank you for your contributions.

Phil
Ajarn.com

By philip, (14th October 2012)

@ Del

I think it quite fitting to just answer your first question.

BECAUSE I CAN.

How's that?

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (13th October 2012)

As you evidently consider yourself to be the best English teacher in Thailand, why are you teaching in a government school in darkest Isaan? Maybe you lack any kind of teaching credentials? That would certainly explain why you look down on anyone with a TEFL/CELTA certificate!

But why do you look down on anyone with a Thai partner? I would suggest that you are one of those individuals who has a Thai wife or girlfriend, but think that you and only you are in a "real" relationship, and all others are only sex tourists or wife buyers.

Despite requests from other posters you refuse to state your own credentials Mr. Richards, you only continue to complain about negative comments when you are the one making the most negative comments - about your fellow teachers, which I resent.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but your blinkered mindset, along with your very simplistic self congratulatory blog entries suggest that you have an over inflated opinion of yourself. Responses to your blog entries back this up - they are often OTT! If someone agrees with you, you praise them for being a great teacher, but you attack those offer any sort of criticism. You even go as far as to suggest that teachers are stealing money from the Thai government! Well, unless you doing voluntary work here that should apply to you too!

By Del, Thailand (12th October 2012)

@ Nodrog

All the best to you, LOL, but you still haven't quite kicked the habit methinks!

Otherwise, why else would you be browsing let alone posting on a Thailand teaching based website if you're happy in the Middle East?

;o)

By Geoff Richards, Isaan, innit. (11th October 2012)

Hey Geoff,

"Better still, just leave Thailand and go and fail somewhere else instead. Bye, bye."

I know quite a few failures who've done just that - myself included. Actually, the rewards of failure are not so bad. As a failure here it's proper resources, an appropriate syllabus, motivated students, indefinitely renewable two year contracts, an education allowance for the kids, and an extra digit on the end of the monthly pay cheque. Being a failure is hard of course, but bearable.

Irony aside, if Thailand wanted to attract and keep professional teachers it would pay and treat them accordingly. But instead it has just capped teachers salaries at an absurd rate, offers hooky eight month contracts, and then nickel and dimes teachers with extra-curricular work and arbitrary deductions.

Never mind such places as the Middle East. Just look at the pay rates and contract terms in say Vietnam or Cambodia, and then come back and tell us why anyone who teaches as a career would work in Thailand long term.

Thailand is lucky it has any NES teachers at all.

By Nodrog, Middle East (11th October 2012)

@ Neil

Before I answer your question, let me ask you the following:

1. what are your thoughts on the anonymous blog?

2. did you make a negative post in it?

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (10th October 2012)

Geof, could you let us know your credentials so that we can judge your comments from your experience and qualifications, too?

Also, you state that you don't work with any of the characters you refer to. May I ask exactly how many lessons conducted by, for example, CELTA holders with 2 years + experience, you have yourself observed?

From my own experience, I must agree that the CELTA is a 'One Trick Pony' and you soon (or should soon...) realise it's limitations and begin to educate yourself further. But during my course they were clear about this. We were told that this is like your driving test: after the course you'll be competent, but in no way 'good' for quite a while.

Also, are hiring policies in Thailand encouraging the higher standards you are aiming for?

Kind Regards.

By Neil, Bangkok (9th October 2012)

@ Richard

If you didn't make a negative post in the anonymous blog that inspired me to write this this one, then I don't understand why it is that you're posting in here at all.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (9th October 2012)

The original article (Why can't Thais speak English) caught my interest as I've just returned from a holiday in Bali, and was surprised by the prevalence of adequate language use by the locals. Clearly there, the importance of the lingua franca to the tourism industry has hit home much more.

I wondered why the situation was so different to Bangkok. I asked around, and didn't pick up that there was any difference in the level or style of English training; be that from local teachers or NES. Some of the better speakers had attended tourism-related courses, where there was more focus on speaking than the reading, writing, grammar focus they had at school. However, even taxi drivers who'd had less schooling, and no adult English training were competent.

So, I do think that the original author's question is a valid one.

You introduced a great point yourself, regarding introductory TEFL training being aimed at teaching Europeans. Perhaps there should be a supplementary certificate for teaching Asians. That would be positive. (I think there's an international issue, too, that these courses tend to focus on communicative learning, and many are guilty of writing off other approaches (and native teachers who apply them) without due consideration of the results they obtain).

People teach EFL for many reasons, and I don't feel it necessary to slate others so generally. Deciding to move into teaching later in life because people marry or don't have other job options doesn't immediately suggest that they might not also be professional, motivated and become great teachers.

By Richard Gallahad, Bangkok (5th October 2012)

@ Jack

No. I just believe that perseverance pays.

And that only bad workmen blame their tools.

People who are making negative comments in the anonymous blog are making a gain at Thailand's loss.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (5th October 2012)

Geoff

So nice that you know so much more than the majority of the rest of the ESL teachers, which considering the generally low levels of education, experience and professionalism found in the ESL profession in general is not all that surprising. But I was wondering if you could share with the rest of us your secrets to gaining knowledge and wisdom. Is it the result of years of education and experience or were you just born on a different intellectual level than mere mortal ESL teachers?

By Jack, On the sofa (3rd October 2012)

@ Graham

I work at a government school and took up this line of work to help and nurture positives, not slag off and create negatives.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (2nd October 2012)

Geoff I know sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but you seem to have missed mine. Some of my students are illiterate in Thai let alone English. M3 students that can't say 14 in English. Students who 'fail' in every subject I think it's a long bow to draw to infer that this is due to foreign teachers. I think your comments are shortsighted if not snobbish and quite insulting to those of us who do try our best in what is a difficult place to teach in. At best I see my classes for 50-55 min per wk. Throw in holidays and school activities there have been times when I have taught a particular class only once in five wks. No audio visual, multi media etc. yet you would say the students lack of English proficiency is the foreign teachers doing.
Have you ever taught Matayom in a govt. school? Have you ever taught in a govt. school?
We don't all teach in international schools mate. CELTA's do have something to offer and as any teacher worth their salt knows, you need to be able to adapt. As for having a Thai partner as the sole reason for teaching, well i just don't get that. A lot of us find partners after the fact not before. I suppose that's not acceptable to you either.

By Graham Reid, Thailand (30th September 2012)

@ Dennis

It is unlikely that you will find significant numbers of students who can speak English where general English is being taught because the focus is on completing tests and exams, all of which involve reading and writing.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (30th September 2012)

@Jack

NES teachers who don't realise the implications of English being a compulsory subject in Thailand.

The results of not realising these implications can be seen in full view over in the other blog.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (30th September 2012)

So which is it, Thai students are bad, or foreign teachers (except those doing the complaining about other teachers) are bad?

By Jack, NotWhereIWantToBe (30th September 2012)

Thanks, Richard.

I know many people who just happen to fall into one of the three categories that I highlighted, but they're all good teachers.

All I'm presenting here is an alternative to the other blog, and I'm glad that you agree with (most) of it.

:o)

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (29th September 2012)

well i am interested in whether he is married to a Thai wife or too ugly to get one .i' ve been teachingin Thailand now for 8 years and i understand what he was commenting on .
the Thai students are very good at reading and writing english but their speaking and communication is very poor due to their cutural life at home (shyness) being one .
I have a hard time trying to get the students to do roleplay, you cant force them to do it so unless you have model students which are very easy to teach and get results with try moving into the country schools where i teach and yes i have my students compete in competitions and had some success but its just programming and not real please comment i would be very interested to hear more about this.

By Dennis, Phitsanulok (29th September 2012)

About spot on! I worked in Thailand before I qualified as a teacher back in UK and I was lucky enough to have a real teacher as a gf and work in a school with teachers who had training (not western but had training) so I was taught the basics on the job. I knew I was rubbish but learnt the basics that showed back in the UK. I love teaching and it surprised me, however it is not a "job".

80% of foreigners in Bangkok are what many colleagues called "white trash" usually with a Thai wife, divorced, no degree, tattoos and although many were decent enough people I wouldn't want them to teach my children as they had no idea how to teach and no passion for education. It was a job for them.

By Richard, Malaysia (29th September 2012)

@ John B

I haven't made any acidic replies to your posts!

And I don't really understand what your angle is here so, yes, let's move on, please!

:o)

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (29th September 2012)

"Now let’s move and and close this discussion"

I totally agree. Let's draw a line under it and just welcome any new comments.

Actually a comment section that appears with a blog isn't really to hold a discussion or argument among two or three people because it then becomes a discussion forum (which is completely different) - and it's only of interest to the two or three people taking part in the discussion / argument.

By philip, (28th September 2012)

@Geoff

You simply don't get it, do you. Even if I didn't read or comment negatively on the said post, your acidic reaction is still about me. You are painting an unnecessarily bleak picture of the teaching industry in Thailand of which I am part, and so are you btw. Your attitude is unworthy of an educator.

Your message to the world is that there are lots of teachers here for no good reason. You even think that having settled here and become a teacher is suspicious. You should focus on the good instead of the bad and leave just a bit of room for teachers' gripes on this website (btw should this not be on the forum?).

Now let's move and and close this discussion because its clear you won't back down or see the error of your rantings. And please, don't give us yet another line like the ones in previous posts. And don't forget, we all have skeletons in our closets.

By John b, Bangkok (28th September 2012)

@ John B

To be honest, John, I was so gobsmacked by the negative posts in there, I stopped reading it.

If you didn't make a negative post in it, then this particular blog is not about people like your good self.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (28th September 2012)

If you had read the comments on the other blog, Geoff (sorry for calling you Richard earlier), you would have noticed if did not comment on it.

Hey, I wasn't even aware of it until I read your tirade. Just show a bit of sportsmanship and admit you stereotyped and over generalized.

An apology from you might be in order, instead of sticking to your guns and trying to avoid losing face at all cost, Thai style.

By John B, Bangkok (28th September 2012)

@ John B

I've never heard of such a bandwagon.

And at a guess, I would say that you DID make a negative post in the other blog.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (27th September 2012)

@ John B

So you DID post a negative comment in the other blog.

A bad workman blames his tools.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (27th September 2012)

Richard, it seems you are getting the hiding you deserve from the reactions here.

Of course nobody can match your efficient and unsurpassed teaching style. We're just a bunch of saddos because we have a job, life and family here.

Oh and, if you don't think Celta or probably other teaching certificates are suitable for teaching Thais, what do you suggest we do? Curtail the practice and forget student based learning and adopt the local style of parroting and explaining subtle grammar points in the students native language?

I don't want to claim all teachers in Thailand are of the same high caliber as they should be that doesn't mean the community as a whole should be reading this kind of dragging down. Nto just bad teachers are affected by these kinds of posts, but all is us.

Shame on you Richard.

By Tom, Thailand (27th September 2012)

It's very sad to see that an Ajarn contributor has jumped on the "if you don't like it here then leave" bandwagon.

Whatever justification you try to give after posting your blog, Richard, maybe you'd better think twice before insinuating most teachers here are the lowest life forms on earth.

And btw, if I did orI didn't respond negatively to the mentioned post is irrelevant. Even good teachers can get frustrated by their students' lack of progress. Just venting your feelings doesn't mean you should be immediately placed in the dregs category.

By John B, Bangkok (27th September 2012)

@ Graham.

LOL.

Please look back over my teaching related blogs for tips and pointers, thanks.

I'm no rocket scientist myself, it's just that I worked in Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam before I came to T'land.

Most of the work in all three countries is private language centre based so you've got to hit the ground running and cut the mustard.

:o)

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (27th September 2012)

Congratulations, Del.

You don't fall under any of the three categories.

Consider yourself enabled to teach English to Thais.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (26th September 2012)

Great superlative. The worst, second best and third class. Personally I would have gone with bad, worse, the worst.

Could you please help me and others and share with us your teaching method. Mine is obviously in need of serious overhaul. Only been teaching here for eight years, have a real degree and an obviously useless CELTA. I'm sure we'll all be very grateful.

By Graham Reid, Thailand (26th September 2012)

I posted this comment before, but it either didn't go through, or wasn't published! I am posting it again as the self-appointed regulator of English teachers, Mr. Richards seems to be totally out of touch with reality! Which planet are you living on Geoff?

I don't fall under any of the 3 categories that were mentioned in the original blog post, but feel obliged to respond as Mr. Richards has forgotten the fourth category. This category is comprised of self important individuals who have usually been here too long and have lost touch with reality, possibly because they have been living in rural backwaters too long. They are also identified by their need to post long, self-congratulatory blogs on their teaching exploits, and completely disagree with anyone who states an opinion which differs from theirs.

Dross and dregs are very strong words, usually used to refer to people such as sex offenders or drug dealers, NOT misguided individuals who think they can teach English, whatever their personal circumstances!

If your teaching methods are proving to be successful, then congratulations. However that doesn't mean that you and you alone are correct. Others may use different methods and achieve similar, or even greater success.

Usually those who think that they, and only they, are right are completely missing the point!

By Del, Thailand (26th September 2012)

@ Roy

You shouldn't blame yourself. English is a compulsory subject in T'land. You can't expect every student to excel at it.

You're doing a great job. Keep up the good work.

@ JBKK

If you DIDN'T post a negative comment in the other blog, it's a sure sign that you CAN teach Thais.

:o)

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (25th September 2012)

I heard an interesting lecture one time- there were staffers in the White House who could have said something critical about the then-upcoming War on Terror, but decided not to for fear that they would be perceived as being negative. The result being that it was possibly much worse, as a result of not looking at something in a critical manner, or from all the angles.

One can be too negative, of course, but it certainly should not be seen as something to be avoided at all times. At any rate, having a point of view which differs from yours is not inferior- there are many ways of seeing things.

I'm not saying we all have to be gloomy, but there is room to criticize that which is wrong, especially if it leads to better things...

By JBKK, bkk (25th September 2012)

Back home people talked about the weather or sports. When I run into farang teachers, they often just like to complain about their students. They need to watch "Lean On Me" if they want to see a challenge. My students are happy to see me and eager to learn. If they don't speak English at the end of the year, I blame myself. I took several years of Spanish and I can count to ten, say hello and good bye and love Mexican food. If I can plant a few words and phrases in their heads and leave them singing a song or two, I have done my job.

By Roy, Chiang Mai (25th September 2012)

@ Andy & John

My article is aimed purely at the dross and the dregs who posted negative comments in the anonymous blog about Thais speaking English.

Thank you kindly for your long replies. I'll keep mine short.

Did you post a negative comment in the other blog?

A yes or no will suffice, thanks.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (24th September 2012)

To Geoff ,
If you dont think there is a problem in thai schools there is something seriously wrong with you .You mentioned English program schools as if they were a massive achievement of course if a child studies English all day everyday they are going to pick up some english but in these English programs the majority of the students are miles away from where they should be.You also mentioned english speaking contests the biggest waste of time I have ever seen one of the foreign teachers writes a story for one of the more confident kids spends a month coaching the kid ,the same piece over and over again until the day of the competition when the kid regurgitates it.Typical of thailand all show and no substance what are these children learning in these competitions.Finally I cant understand how you can have a problem with people who have a celta what would you suggest that everyone goes back to their own country and becomes a qualified teacher may i ask what qualifications you have oh great one master of all teachers and defender of thailands pathetic attempts to learn English.

By john mc, bangkok (23rd September 2012)

As a teaching professional, I can't really agree with much of what has been intimated here. There are good teachers and bad teachers, just as there are good pupils and bad pupils.

The main difference being, in my view, that there's not a lot you can do to improve the former. Waving a piece of paper from a British university is not proof positive of a good teacher. Good teachers are naturally good teachers, but what makes them exceptional is the focus and grounding which a long course with graduated teaching experiences can provide. I have yet to meet an English teacher who fully understands our system of tenses!

It is of course possible to have good teachers who have drifted into the profession for one of many reasons. The big bad world outside the classroom is littered with trainers, instructors, and informal teachers in every walk of life. So it is not unreasonable to guess that some might find their way into the teaching profession.

Equally there must be people who are forced into teaching by circumstance, who are not so good.

The key to all this is that professional educators like ourselves, need to

a) spot obstacles to learning
b) remove them
c) motivate pupils to continue learning
d) provide them with a focussed and relevant curriculum.

It is difficult to see how, the "Thais cant learn English" philosophy will result in success.

Thankfully I work with a varied team with a wide range of qualifications who for the most part manage a) b) c) and d) without much difficulty. Some are Thai, some single, some married, some married to Thais, some here to broaden their experiences but amongst them all there is a healthy lack of prejudice quite different from that detailed above, on both sides of the argument. We should remember that we in England are not the worlds best linguist, could that too be a condition brought on by our own teachers, in their own country?

We should treat each child on his or her merits and shape the curriculum to meet their needs.

By Andy Scoopman, Thailand (22nd September 2012)

@ JBKK

If you made a negative post in the blog that prompted me to write article, then you fall into one of the three categories.

If you didn't, then you don't. Which means that you can teach Thai people how to speak English. Voila.

:o)

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (22nd September 2012)

I might be being obtuse, and if I am, I apologize. However, if I am representative of one of your three categories, doesn't that mean you think I am, on the face of it, not a good teacher?

Also, I can't really see why the commentators on the other blog are hiding being bad teachers by criticizing aspects of culture which (IMHO) tend to prevent optimal learning. When did they necessarily imply they were lazy, for example?

I cannot see why you feel they are bad teachers based on some unrevealing comments, unless you mean that by definition negativity is bad. I do realize that overt negativity is bad, but I feel overt positivity is just as misplaced; do you disagree?

Sorry for coming on strong to begin, but your blog was a bit too black and white for me.

By JBKK, bkk (22nd September 2012)

@JBKK

You have misread me.

Nowhere did I mention anyone leading a seedy social life and nowhere did I say that I found you objectionable.

Back on topic, the people who made negative posts in the other blog, were hiding behind the fact that they're poor teachers.

Perhaps we can agree on this point?

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (21st September 2012)

Sorry, my last response was posted the second after the one before that.

I did read the blog (and in fact already contributed to the comments). Leaving aside that you obviously think the teachers are the only ones to blame...

I am in your third class of worthless losers. I have a CELTA. I do have an interest in teaching, though this influenced in part by the fact that I can't really do much else here and I want to be with my wife, who is certainly not a stereotype.

I was not a teacher before, and I am sure you would say I am not one now, but I do appreciate the opportunity to do something I would not have thought to train for and become previously.

I do my best, but I am not a properly qualified teacher. I try to give my students quality English instruction, though it is not always easy, and I do make mistakes, which I learn from.

I do not whore around, drink, smoke, take drugs, beat my wife or abuse anyone.

I do not know why you find me so objectionable at face value. From your tone, I feel you would object to me even if you knew me, as I cannot match up to the highest of teaching standards. Does this mean any (I'm sure accidental) positive results my amateur and self-interested self yielded are worthless?

By JBKK, BKK (21st September 2012)

@JBKK

One has to make some sort of generalisation when responding to another generalisation.

What I'm presenting is the opposite of what the other article presented. And I'm sticking to my guns when I say that bad workmen blame their tools.

From what I can see by your posts on here, however, you fall outside of the three categories that I highlighted.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (21st September 2012)

I misspoke- there's always the example of the poor student pulling themselves up, or being pulled up by an inspiring teacher. Certainly not all students who do well in English are rich. This is almost as gross a generalization as given in the OP.

By JBKK, BKK (20th September 2012)

@JBKK

1. Nope. Many of these students come from government schools. Anything else is a generalisation.

2. Yep, agree.

3. Nope. Go and read the blog that inspired my article. You'll soon be using the term 'worthless' yourself.

By Geoff Richards, Isaan (20th September 2012)

1. I think you'll find those successful students you mentioned (winning competitions, getting scholarships) come from well-off families, whose children probably get a lot of extra study tuition. They do not represent the average Thai student, who finds it difficult to learn English, for many of the reasons in the original blog.

2. Yes, in an ideal world, students would learn from qualified professionals. Thailand must take what it can get (or, more realistically, pay for).

3. "Worthless characters". I may not be a qualified teacher, and I may not be the best teacher in the world, but I would never stoop to calling anyone "worthless". Very low class.

By JBKK, BKK (20th September 2012)

I generally like the stuff that you write Geoff, but this blog struck me as being controversial purely for the sake of being controversial.

To be honest, if I was learning French from a Frenchman whose only reason for being in the country was to be with a significant other, I couldn't give a toss about his situation as long as I was making progress in the French language - and I'm certainly going to be the best judge of that. What's going in the background - the teacher's life - is of no concern to me.

And the third-class person is almost certainly the group I belong to. I took a CELTA in order to stay on here as a teacher because there was nothing else I could do. But I happened to be quite good at it as well and I can look back on a fairly decent 15-year teaching career. But eventually I found something easier and better-paid.

By philip, (20th September 2012)

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