Are you a teacher who once taught in Thailand but decided to seek out pastures new? Has the grass been greener on the other side? Maybe you swapped Thailand for the financial lure of Japan or Korea? Read about those who have left Thailand, and their reasons for moving...
Steve Forrester
Q1. Where did you move to and when?
I went from Thailand to Vietnam, and I should add I'm glad I did.
Q2. How long did you work in Thailand?
I spent about 5 miserable years working at supposedly the best uni in Thailand, but nothing could be further from the truth. 8 teachers left in one semester. The uni thinks they can rely on their name to hire English teachers, but they can't. As a result, they have advertised for teachers for over one year without filling vacancies. The international affairs dept. doesn't know how to recruit teachers. I walked off a few other jobs and I have walked out of interviews because of the unprofessionalism displayed by potential Thai employers. (Talking on the their cell phones during the interview, etc.)
Q3. What was your main reason for moving?
My main reason for leaving was the overall disappointment with the culture. This culture is about superficiality, nothing more. Even though the culture has some beautiful aspects to it, it's an overall disappointment. I've seen foreigners treated very badly without any recourse. Vietnam is much more stable, the people are much friendlier than Thais and the students try harder. If Thailand doesn't clean up it's image, Vietnam will pass them by. Also, I was tired of students coming to me crying, feeling that they were stupid because their grades were manipulated by the Thai staff to fit the mold and image of the university. Foreign teachers are kept out of the grading process for that reason. I once sat in a meeting where a Thai teacher tried to justify that in a six-section class why section 1 should have the highest scores and section 6 should have the lowest scores. The reason was because section 1 is number one
Q4. What are the advantages of working where you are now compared to Thailand?
The advantages are many. The overall atmosphere is better. The pay is better and they actually care about the input from foreign teachers and they have gone as far to say they want to be criticized so that they can make improvements. This is not a superficial society.
Q5. What do you miss about life in Thailand?
The only thing I miss about Thailand is that the facilities are a little bit better. I didn't thrive on the nightlife, so that never mattered to me. I would never teach in Thailand again. I would never work for a Thai in a teaching capacity. Everything goes in one ear and out the other. They have a major inferiority complex which interferes with their professional judgement.
Q6. Would you advise a new teacher to seek work in Thailand or where you are now?
As a starting point, Thailand is a good place for teacher training and for a first time job. However, it's not the best place to teach. If your heart is truly set on teaching, Thailand is not the place to be. You will like it at first, then you see the way things really are after a while, then you get frustrated, then you find another job and see that it is the same there, then you know it's time to get out.
Q7. Any plans to return to Thailand one day?
In April 2007, for the last time, only as a tourist. I do have some close Thai and foreign friends. My foreign friends are lucky that they are retired and don't have to work. Even they say if they had to work in Thailand, they would leave.
Q8. Anything else you'd like to add?
I would recommend that if you teach in Thailand that you keep to yourself in the workplace. Thais will look for ammunition to use against you. Foreigners will do the same in the hopes that they can get ahead by collaborating with the Thais. It's a shame to see foreigners reduce themselves to acting like Thais, but they need job security I guess because they can't do anything else in their lives. I've heard so much juvenile, immature gossip by Thai women in their 40's and 50's who supposedly have PhDs. They believe that they will get promoted or get a title, but in the end, the Thais don't care about them either. The Thai government says that Thai government schools have to employ so many foreigners. Believe me when I say that if it the Thai staff could have their way, they wouldn't have any foreigners working at their schools. This should give some idea of what they really think of foreign teachers.
Mark Zafiros
Q1. Where did you move to and when?
I moved to China about three months ago. I moved after trying to get the non-immigrant B and work permit. I had to pay so much money and the run-around was such a hassle. I just got tired.
Q2. How long did you work in Thailand?
Four years. I worked for three schools. Came in to southern Thailand for one semester then moved to Bangkok for one school year. Then I had a one year contract in Issan and when I was still trying to get a visa at the end of the first term – That was it.
Q3. What was your main reason for moving?
The government visa problems and the lack of help I was getting from the school.
Q4. What are the advantages of working where you are now compared to Thailand?
Well, the salary is 45,000 baht (equivalent) and I get a very nice one bedroom apartment in a luxury apartment building. I also had my visa and flight (RT) paid for on arrival. I only work three days a week and I have 5 sections on those three days and the school provides a grader to help grade papers and record the score. The place is so much better than Thailand I am only sorry I didn’t come years ago.
Q5. What do you miss about life in Thailand?
The food, the people the warm weather.
Q6. Would you advise a new teacher to seek work in Thailand or where you are now?
I would say go to Thailand only if you have no other choice. The salary stinks the benefits stink and the Thai government obviously doesn’t want us there.
Q7. Any plans to return to Thailand one day?
Oh I get midterm here off – one month and then 7 weeks (all paid btw) and I’ll come for a holiday.
Q8. Anything else you'd like to add?
I would love to get all the foreign teachers to do a walkout for a day just to show the Thai government that it has to either pay for real teachers (around 2500 – 3000 USD) a month or lighten up on us. What does the government think we are doing in Thailand, anyway? We are not here for the money and the job takes real work. If they start making demands for documents that are difficult to obtain i.e. police checks from our home country and such then we are only going to work here if we have no other choices. The problem for the Thai government is we do have other choices.
Richard
Q1. Where did you move to and when?
Shanghai, China September 2012
Q2. How long did you work in Thailand?
Three and a half years on and off.
Q3. What was your main reason for moving?
The low pay, having to do visa runs and the corrupt Thai education system.
Q4. What are the advantages of working where you are now compared to Thailand?
Better pay, more job satisfaction and appreciation for the job you do. In addition, work permits are easier to obtain and the majority of students who are keen to learn.
Q5. What do you miss about life in Thailand?
I miss the convenience of Western food, cheap movie tickets and weekends away at nice Islands.
Q6. Would you advise a new teacher to seek work in Thailand or where you are now?
Maybe for one semester only just to say that you've done it.
Q7. Any plans to return to Thailand one day?
None whatsoever.
Q8. Anything else you'd like to add?
After reading many letters on ajarn over the years I felt compelled to write in myself. I had been teaching in Thailand for the best part of 3 and half years, primarily Bangkok, Pattaya and Chonburi. My first teaching job was working at a private school in Pattaya, I was on 25,000 Baht, 3-month probationary period, and then it would go up to 28,000. I was teaching kindergarten, not my choice but as I have a degree in acting studies (Drama school graduate) I guess the school felt I was well suited for this post.
My kids although demanding, were great and after much hard work, which included supplying much of my own teaching materials and having to write up the next semesters lesson plans, on the very last day I was told I hadn't passed the probation period. Later I was to discover I was replaced by a teacher from the Philippines. The next 3 years I taught at a number of schools with my wages hovering around the 30,000 mark with the exception of one job where I was paid 38,000. That was because I had to travel a fare distance between two schools and do colossal amounts of paperwork outside of school hours, not to mention some of my classes had up to 55 students.
I returned home for five months in summer 2011 and taught at a language school in Bournemouth UK. It was a real wake up call. I had to up my game considerably, I was teaching European students predominantly from Spain, students who wanted to learn. It was totally refreshing. I had an abundance of teaching materials and resources, I could photocopy as often as I liked, pub nights that I got paid for as well as trips to London and I was being paid 16 pounds an hour. I was only hired for the summer so the job wrapped up in September. Most of my students were full of gratitude and thanks, which was a very nice feeling.
I decided to return to Thailand in October for one last time. I had a job arranged at a university in Chonburi through an agency I had previously worked for. 30,000 Baht a month for 1 and a half hours Mon to Fri and all day Sunday, It was a contract that was due to run till March, I could live with that. Having been sent all the necessary documents from my Thai employer, a few days before I flew out, I had to pick up my multi entry B Visa from the Thai consulate in Liverpool. When I got there I was told I could only have a single entry visa as the rules had changed. "You have to be over 50 or married to a Thai national" This really pissed me off to say the least as I was sick and tired of all the previous border runs at my expense and due to all the huge page filling stamps my passport was filling up fast.
But all was not lost; my boss assured me he would sort everything out and get me a work permit. What a contrast compared with Bournemouth. I was supposed to get around 22 students a class but I was lucky if half that amount showed up. When they did, most of them were consistently half an hour late. When I expressed my concern to my Thai bosses (after all it was the students parents money that were paying for my services) I was just told not to worry or a shrug of the shoulders.
Christmas arrived, I had my holiday and returned just after New Year. My first day back I was greeted with the usual wais and smiles but no students in my class. I was told "no have class today, students come tomorrow" Later that afternoon I got a call from my boss and he asked what happened. I said what you mean what happened? He then went onto tell me that the school was not happy with me and they now have a new teacher coming tomorrow in my place and if I have any books from the university could I hand them in.
On arrival at the university, I made straight for the heads office demanding to speak to her. After a 5 minuet wait I was told to step into the office. The head gestured me to sit down while she was having a conversation on her mobile. I never got to speak directly to the head teacher, she was conveniently talking on her phone throughout the duration, instead I spoke to the third teacher down the pecking order. I asked her the reasons for my replacement, to which she explained to me that the students were not happy. I replied you mean some of the students; the ones that constantly kept turning up late without so much as an explanation or an apology you mean. She nodded vaguely of course. I explained the students in my class that wanted to learn did, it all fell on deaf ears though. In the end and after going round in circles, I finally got to the truth, she said to me “up to students” because they pay money to come here. She went on to tell me that she knew I was a good teacher. I said how do you know that, none of you ever observed my classes.
My very last teaching job in Thailand was teaching at a government school in Sai Mai Bangkok. It was through a small agency just starting out. I of course had to do one more border run to Laos to get another 3 months in Thailand. The agency did say that they could sort out a double entry visa for me for 13,000 Bart; however I declined their generous offer and did it myself for 3,000. There was only 6 weeks left to run at the school, so I was just finishing off previous work and then onto testing. I of course I had to give all the students at least a 50% pass mark. I returned to the UK for 6 months and taught at English 2000 in Bournemouth again, which was fantastic.
September 2012, I decided to make the move to Shanghai China working at Wall Street. A visa and work permit were arranged, I was picked up from the airport, put up in a hotel for a week whilst the company helped me find accommodation and of course no border run crap. I earned great money, received a Christmas present and thanks from my wonderful boss and was made to feel appreciated for my efforts. I only wish I had made the move sooner. It’s all been a big learning experience. Unless something radically changes - which I doubt - I can’t see myself ever teaching in Thailand again. The education system is a complete waste of time.
There were students who did want to learn though, but they had no chance because the Thai Education system will not let them. Most of the teachers worth their salt I started with in 2008 have long gone. The only teachers I know still working there are those who didn’t have a degree, and they are totally vulnerable to visa restrictions and the crap pay stranded in a fool’s paradise or the semi retired on a pension and still earning around 30’000 Baht. In my opinion teaching in Thailand, you learn absolutely nothing that will equip you for the rest of the teaching world.
I am now on a 10 month contract in Phnom Phen of all places as an English/Drama teacher at an International School. Flight paid for and a very high salary. Happy days
Jay
Q1. Where did you move to and when?
Saudi Arabia - two months ago.
Q2. How long did you work in Thailand?
Six years over three stretches.
Q3. What was your main reason for moving?
The small salary with no yearly increase. I got married two years ago and got a child last year. Even though my wife and I had a joint monthly income of just over 50k baht in the semi-countryside, we were always just surviving with a slowly but constantly increasing credit card bill. We decided to get a car to make things easier and for taking care of the baby. We also lived in a spacious five bedroom house (monthly expenses left just 22k for my wife and I and our nappy-happy baby). We lived Thai-style so managed to keep it generally even month-to-month.
Q4. What are the advantages of working where you are now compared to Thailand?
Teaching expectations (rules, curriculum, disciplinary support, weekly lesson-pacing schedule etc.) very clearly set out. The general level of English is much higher than in Thailand, so problems can be discussed with management/concerned parties directly, also without shyness and shame playing an overwhelming role. Problems are discussed maturely and generally and openly with the staff, and in the classroom, students are not afraid to make an effort to use what English they have.
The salary is three times higher here (around 100k Baht+ for an English-related degree holder with TEFL), with a return flight each year, fully paid luxury accommodation/bills included with a gym, recreation area and swimming pool. Generally the only thing you need to pay for is food and personal toys such as computers, tablets, books, etc. so it is easy for a single person to save 70-80% of their 100k Baht salary each month.
Q5. What do you miss about life in Thailand?
The open social interaction. Even though Saudis are on the whole very polite, calm, friendly and respectful, they are very private. Everything happens behind high walls and there is a strict code of public behaviour - women have to be covered from head to toe and may generally not interact with men other than their own family. There are separate areas in restaurants/banks etc. for single guys and women/families. Basically all your friends will be in a family or be single guys. It's possible but tough for women to come to Saudi alone. That being said, things are generally very relaxed in the foreigner compounds (little villages where foreigners live) and even Saudis follow an unwritten rule that you're allowed to do what you like as long as it's in the privacy of your own home and not seen.
So I miss the eye candy and general freedom found in Thailand compared to here. It's also strange having to get back in the kitchen after six years of great Thai market meals, but it is nice to have all the western foods available again.
Q6. Would you advise a new teacher to seek work in Thailand or where you are now?
Thailand would provide a suitable testing ground to be able to make forgiven mistakes while you get used to the teaching profession, but the general lack of structure and clearly visible expectations, redundant work tasks and passing failed students, etc. might leave a sour taste in one's mouth. I would advise this only for a short-term learning experience - there is generally not a lot of money in teaching in Thailand, hardly any rewards (it could actually be seen as a disadvantage) for staying at the same school and learning the language.
Saudi Arabia gives the structure (schedules, books, communication lines) to be able to work things out, communicate and self-educate yourself. It is quite difficult to get into Saudi, and it's not for everyone, schools seem to have some difficulty in finding teachers and so that does make it slightly harder to get laid off at a whim. If you don't have ulterior motives and genuinely want to teach, I would advise seeking work in Saudi - the benefits are superb, money is good, problems are solved respectfully and they have salary reviews and rewards for people who re-sign contracts.
Q7. Any plans to return to Thailand one day?
Definitely. We have farmland in Thailand so would at least go there on holiday / to check up on things. It is still undecided as to where we will live after Saudi Arabia, as my wife and I would prefer for our son to grow up in a less restricted society. We will be fine until he reaches grade 1 (6-7 years old) as before this time kids in the kindergarten are not segregated. If I get my teaching degree sorted in the next 5 years, I would certainly look at working in Thailand again - at an international school or university with a higher salary and proper benefits packages.
Q8. Anything else you'd like to add?
A lot of this great escape information is from what I hear from colleagues, but also my personal experience over the last two months.
I'm quite happy here in Saudi. It offers the perfect opportunity for teaching career advancement (I have heard that having Saudi work experience on your CV is also recognised favourably in Thailand), the possibility of saving up tons of money, loads of free time in the afternoons (work at my school is from 7.30 to 3pm with no more than five 40 minute lessons per day) to spend time on other projects such as studying for a masters/Ph.D, exercise, online work/blogging.
Petrol is incredibly cheap (150 baht to fill up a 40 litre tank), but it can get insanely boring for people who need mixed social interaction. You can go on trips to alcohol free night clubs with other single guys if it comes to that (it hasn't yet for me, despite my colleagues' gloomy predictions, but I don't expect it to!) - on the other hand, it's perfect for internet/gadget/movie junkies or new families taking care of babies/toddlers.
Michael
Q1. Where did you move to and when?
I moved to Taiwan about a year ago.
Q2. How long did you work in Thailand?
I worked for one year in the south of Thailand.
Q3. What was your main reason for moving?
I'd had a great year in Thailand, but needed to move to a country where I could begin saving up some cash.
Q4. What are the advantages of working where you are now compared to Thailand?
The biggest advantage is that I'm on twice as much money as I was on in Thailand. The other big advantage is that education is taken very seriously in Taiwan. I was simply stunned by the level of English my students possess. I have a lot more resources at my disposal, and I get to see my students make real progress. Classes are pretty easy to plan, as the students are proficient enough to chat with me.
Q5. What do you miss about life in Thailand?
The holidays! Most jobs in Taiwan are with 'cram schools'. That means you get usually 9 days paid holiday a year. One week of those days usually HAS to be taken at Chinese New Year, when everyone else is off work too. This means everywhere is either closed up or rammed with people. Even when you do get a bank holiday, the Taiwanese government will sometimes stipulate that you have to 'work back' that day by coming into work on Saturday!
I miss the general craziness of Thailand. Taiwan is a lot more Westernised and has killer public services, but occasionally I just wish I could see an elephant nonchalantly walking down the street like I did in Thailand!
I also get very nostalgic thinking about the late-night rides home I used to take on the back of a motorclycle-taxi after a night of partying.
Q6. Would you advise a new teacher to seek work in Thailand or where you are now?
I'd definitely recommend Thailand to a first-time teacher. Go there, give it a try and see if the TEFL lifestyle is for you. You'll have an amazing year; the experience of living and teaching in Thailand is simply brilliant.
Then once you've got a bit of experience and you're in-country, you can look at finding a better-paid position. Or you could do like I did and look at moving to one of the Asian countries that offer higher salaries.
Q7. Any plans to return to Thailand one day?
My current plan is to go home maybe next year and complete a teaching qualification in the UK. After that, I'd say Thailand would be an option.
However, as a fully-qualified teacher I'd be looking to get one of those jobs you only ever hear rumours about. You know the ones: 'oh a friend of a friend is on 120k a month, free shuttle-bus to work, free lunch, free massages, the classrooms are paved with gold.....'
Q8. Anything else you'd like to add?
I run a blog focusing on teaching ideas for kindergarten-age students. It's updated weeky and is available at: http://michaelplews.wordpress.com/
I am the co-author of 'The Essential Guide to Teaching English and Living in Thailand'. It's available to buy on Amazon. If you're thinking about giving TEFL a go in Thailand, then give it a read!
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