This is the place to air your views on TEFL issues in Thailand. Most topics are welcome but please use common sense at all times. Please note that not all submissions will be used, particularly if the post is just a one or two sentence comment about a previous entry.

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Clouds of smoke

Clouds of smoke

I would like to chip into this debate and just put down a few of the thoughts I have in writing.
Surely there must be the element in institutions where English is taught for profit in Thailand, that they want to adorn their business prospectus with a young and handsome or beautiful white face. Look at advertising material from the British Council, the websites for schools in Western countries on the net, and even the most popular commercial EFL textbooks. Plenty of such faces feature there as well. Even if they are not white, they are still usually young and beautiful. It is standard practice because beauty appeals to the eye of the beholder, and because beauty thus sells.

There is surely the element too that these education-for-profit institutions care not for the actual quality of education they provide, or that it at least plays second fiddle to looking good. And look, particularly in Thailand, is still very much the state that society is in. If true substance counted for much there would have to be a major social upheaval – because their owners and operators probably do not know anything about what constitutes quality education (again, Thailand all over) They are fixated with getting bums on seats. So yeah, who would not want to complain about this. There is definitely injustice afoot. For sure, they would pass over someone who was a native-born citizen of an English speaking country and an excellent teacher on the grounds of their appearance, in much the same way as they are going to rob mums and dads blind, and milk kids like cows by opening candy shops at the front of the school.

On the other hand, the law of averages dictates that there is some advantage in going for the young white person. Which is something we do not hear a lot about. Scientific enlightenment – some famous scientific wit, I cannot recall who, called enlightenment, or, as Jared Diamond puts it, ‘the shift from speculation to rationalisation’, that ‘little thing that happened a couple of hundred years ago that a lot of people have not heard much about’, or words to that effect, 55 - has brought about profound change in Western society, not least in terms of the quality of education. This change for the good, in terms of knowledge, at least, has accelerated since the advent of the information age. You pick white, and you pick young, and you are, if fathoming other indicators of teacher quality is beyond you, in a way maximising your chances of picking someone who is a native speaker of English who has a modern Western education.

This is surely what the parents of Thailand are thinking when they discriminate in this way. Not all the people who cry ‘racism’ and ‘ageism’ are being entirely reasonable themselves, are they, the cynic in me demands the concept be at least lent a little consideration. In regards to the ‘ageism’ thing in particular, yeah, the term was coined originally to describe how employable people can dip out on getting a job because of their age – but in all fairness to young people (and I am 40, if you wonder), does not discrimination on the basis of age for the most part work the other way in society? And is there not great injustice afoot when you think of all the people who were not life-long learners, and who are representative of pre-information age and far more ignorant times – who are steeped in the mores of more primitive states of society – who stand over young, well educated people, and perpetually find fault with them to bolster their own very, very false feelings of superiority? As if it does not happen! It is a central pillar of primitive human society that ‘age is wisdom’…

Finally here, there is the element too that Thai people are racist. Black is bad, to not possess the physiology of the ruling class is bad. The mould you were born in in many ways dictates your quality in society, rather than the nature of your intelligence (what you have learned). Again, they are in that state of society where to even consider the injustice of this is to ‘kid leuk’, or think deeply, and by association with this term in the Thai mind think too much, and be in need of a good cup of hemlock. For most people, of course, not all, just as it is in the West. They are light years away from actually creating and, more to the point, enforcing policy that is going to shake people out of their stupor. So this is definitely unfair as well. No wonder the victims complain.

Fair go


A better example than Hooters

Maybe my point of Hooters was lost in the fact that I used Hooters. I'll give you another example. A local school in America was hiring a Spanish teacher. They had the audacity to put in their ad that they wanted a teacher who was from Spain. That just made me so angry. That meant, just because I wasn't a sexy sleek man from Spain, that I couldn't have the job?

So, I filed a complaint with the school district, and I forced the school to change their ad. It now read, "looking for Spanish teacher, all welcome to apply" Unfortunately, I still didn't get the job even though I have a PHD in Spanish from Harvard University. Seems like they were really serious about wanting a native speaker of Spanish and I just wasted my time, and so did a lot of other people who needlessly applied, and of course so did the poor HR staff who had to read through thousands of resumes needlessly.

So, once again I got angry. I complained to the school board that if the school only wants a native speaker of Spanish from Spain, then they should put that in the job advert and not waste my time. I then held a small riot and burned down three houses and smashed some cars. I also stood out side the local Spanish restaurant in town and hurled insults at al those inside.

Joe hoeson

It's really up to you

Hmmm... now that's a Thai-English saying eh? But really it is up to you not just the educational facility that is posting up jobs. A good teaching job is not just about the money, there are plenty at 30,000 or less a month, its a two way situation. A school is looking for a teacher who will improve the educational standard of its students and fit in with the cultural and social aspect of the place. A teacher is looking for..... well that's personal, so what is the problem?

We can all read what we want into a job advert, actually that's quite good marketing, get the maximum response and choose the best for the situation. However also we teachers can also look and laugh at what we see posted on the jobs page.

What suits me as a teaching job, is very different from the next teacher. We all have different needs. Whilst money is not the first thing I look at in a job ( I'm lucky enough to have another income) there is a value I put on my work and time. For me facilities available, support from the school, the welcome I get when I arrive and how other teachers mix with each other, plus its important to know that the school will support you if there are ever any disruptive students. (I've know teachers who have had students take a knife to them and the school did nothing about it) it might be an extreme, but just knowing that the school is there to help and support a teacher is very important. Some help with accommodation, others provide visas ,health insurance, transport assistance.... the list can be endless.

If you can get a class room assistant thats a bonus, and for one I'd be willing to take a little less salary if it meant I had an assistant. They are a great help to a teacher and more often than you both become good friends, so the students benefit all the more.

So come on lets not get all pc, that is one thing that has gone to far in the UK. Of course cut the racism out, but don't get offended at simple things like job adverts. We all make choices every day and so what if one place wants a three-legged, one eyed, twenty foot tall NES teacher with pink hair, maybe because that is in line with all the other staff they employ!

I've been turned down for plenty of jobs, and I've turned down many before and after the interview, just don't take it to heart, no job is for life anymore, these things constantly change. Remember you choose where you work, if the school or education facility does not match your needs or expectations just say no, its better for both.

Ian Bkk


Schools are not Hooters

Schools are not Hooters

This is in response to "You give customers what they want - it’s a business" (Postbox 17th March 2011). Comparing the hiring process of Hooters to a school in Thailand is not only illogical but also utterly tasteless. Yes, some schools are businesses, but some are also government schools. They don't need to market or advertise to get more students. There's no profit even if they hire a Hooters waitress as a teacher. You are probably forgetting that education is a basic human right, not a business. That is why there should be no discrimination when it comes to hiring teachers. Yes, I agree that native English speakers should be more "preferred" by schools to teach English, but as long as he/she has the proper teaching credentials and experience, not some dude who used to manage a Hooters franchise. So if there's no luck finding a reputable NES teacher, why not hire a competitive NNES teacher?

Again, if you put "NES Only" and not "NES preferred" then you are limiting yourself to handful of NES applicants, plus a large chunk of unqualified NNES who are too ignorant to understand "NES Only." If you try changing it to "NES Preferred" then you will still get the same amount of NES applicants, same big chunk of ignorant NNES, but this time, with another handful of NNES but competitive enough to teach like a NES.

But will all those emails fill up your inbox? Yes they will. Would it consume your time to go through all of them? Yes it would, and you should. If your job is to choose the right candidate, then choose wisely by going through each and every resume. Why? Because it is the right thing to do.

What is wrong is making a comparison between Hooters and Thai schools. Hooters require big chested ladies because they effectively capture the male market while schools hire teachers, NES or not, as long as you're an effective teacher. Students or parents may demand skin color, but they don't know how to run a school. A school with competitive NNES teachers can be more profitable in the long run than a school with NES teachers that are incompetent.

It may be silly for a Thai school not to place "NES Only" in their job ads, but education is not a silly thing, and if they really want their kids to be educated like the rest of the world, they should start learning how to look beyond skin color.

Sar C. Astic


Asian features seal my fate (part two)

Dear “job ads are not racist” (Postbox 15th March 2011)
While I appreciate your letter, your example of being discriminated at Hooters for not being a sexy young female is not equitable with my discrimination here. That is the restaurant industry in America and this is education. There is a very big difference between the two. Things are the way they are, but it doesn’t make them OK. You cannot justify the discrimination here by saying it happens everywhere and it is not a big deal. While there is nothing that cannot be changed about the way hiring is done here, it is still wrong.

What I find even more disheartening is comments made like these in the letter from “job ads are not racist” - “If you don’t like it, then go to another company or country where things are just.” I have had people say that to me at job interviews. People who say this to immigrants are cold and callous. It is ironic this statement was said to my father when he was first adjusting to his life in America and now to me as I try and work in Thailand. It is an amazing world isn’t it?
But no matter what situations I encounter here, I still and will always love Thailand.

Multi racial American


Discrimination exists all over

Discrimination exists all over

Undoubtedly there is racial discrimination in hiring. There is also ageism in hiring, even in the U.S. As an 'over fifty' candidate for teaching positions before I came to Thailand I was a victim of ageism in the U.S. I applied for a position at an International "golden" fast food company in the town where I had lived for twenty years.

I was repeatedly ignored when trying to follow up and then finally rejected when I questioned the hiring managers preferences for younger workers in management. During the interview I was asked, "So, what has you degree done for you lately?" And given the unmistakable impression of his own belief in his (the hiring manager's) self-importance. The position I obtained here in Thailand was based on my experience and the fact that I had all the necessary documents needed on hand during the interview.

I have had a positive experience with my Thailand employer and thank them for respecting my age and experience. The sting of discrimination is disheartening, discouraging. and does not get you the best candidate for the job. Yet, it is the way that many continue to act. Each society must confront itself and change comes at a glacial pace.

Dan


You give customers what they want - it's a business

In response the responses to my letter on 16th March (Job ads are not racist) I would like to say that my original letter was regarding whether or not it's okay to put 'native speakers only' need apply. Now, whether or not native speaker is used to mean we do not want black or Asian teachers is another story.

Yes, I know and every one else with experience here knows that schools do not generally want Asian or black teachers. This is because the students will feel like they've been lied to by the school when they were told that a NES would be teaching them. From a business stand point, you give your customers what they want. What the students want is a handsome white man or woman to teach them. No, I think that's unjust, but I also feel it's very unjust that Hooters won't hire me as a waiter. For those of you who don't know, Hooters is a large restaurant chain in America with attractive young females with large chests. Men like to eat there, and drink beer, and chat with the waitresses. I personally find it very sexist that they won't give me a job based solely on the fact that I'm not a young sexy female.

If you really want to get to the core of the issue, it's a religious one. But for those who live in the world today, you just have to accept the fact that businesses hire the people that their customers want them to hire. If you don't like it, then go to another company or country where things are just. For example, in America, no company would dare to ask for a photo with your resume. That would be begging for a lawsuit. So it would be just as silly for Hooters to put in their job advert that all are welcome to apply, as it would be for a Thai school to say the same thing.

Joe Hoeson


Asian features seal my fate

Asian features seal my fate

Dear job ads are not racist (Postbox 15th March 2011) I do not agree with your letter. I will elaborate. You stated that hiring a native speaker of English has nothing to do with race. It has EVERYTHING to do with race here. I am an American who is half Caucasian and half Asian. I am also a native English speaker with a Bachelor’s Degree and TESOL certificate. I have been called in for several interviews to only be accused of lying about being a native speaker and about being a real American. My partial Asian feature seals my fate the minute I walk through the door. It doesn’t matter that I have all of my original documents such as my American birth certificate, US passport, and American college degree. The only thing they see is that I don’t appear to be their textbook definition of being a native speaker of English - which is someone 100% white. On the other hand, these schools can technically hire whoever they want. If they want white faces, there is nothing that can be done about it. But you can’t say that race has nothing to do with being a native English speaker here.

Multi racial American


Let's not kid ourselves

In response to Joe Hoeson's 'job ads are not racist' (Postbox 15th March 2011)
NES. What exactly does that mean? Yes yes, I know what the acronym stands for but to whom do you apply it? Knowing your mindset, and that of Thais in general, whites are native speakers and Asians are non natives. Is that not by it's very definition "racism"? Skin color should not be the final determining factor whether a Filipino should or should not be hired. Take my wife for example. Sonia has a master degree in education and she has five years of English (English composition) teaching experience as an adjunct lecturer at a prestigious New York university. Would you hire someone with those qualifications? What if it turns out that Sonia is a dark skinned Filipino?

The bottom line is that Thailand does not adhere to non-discriminatory hiring practices: height, age, attractiveness, overall appearance, and especially skin tone are typically and explicitly considered for any job that requires working with the public (and this applies just as much to the Thais as it does to foreigners, maybe more so). This should be clear to anyone who has been asked to send a photo of themselves along with their résumé, a practice that is entirely illegal in just about all of our respective Western countries. The photo is obviously being required in order to determine if the prospective teacher “looks the part.” But let us not kid ourselves and say that this is not racism and hide behind the label of "NES".

Anonymous


Job ads are not racist

Having been a school owner before, I see nothing racist in saying that I only want native speakers to apply. First of all, this has nothing to do with being black, yellow or white. Native speaker does not mean handsome white man or woman. It simply means some one whose first language is English, and if it's English conversation that you're learning, then there's nothing strange about wanting to learn it from a native speaker.

Secondly, and anyone who has ever posted a job ad on ajarn would know this, even though you may state you are only looking for a native speaker, you will get at least 300 resumes from Filipinos. Also, the fact that they are Filipino will be hidden. So you will actually have to read through the entire resume to finally find out that they are Filipino, and that you have wasted your time reading their resume. It's very frustrating.

Let's say for instance I wanted to open a Tagalog school. I would put out an advertisement for Native Speakers of Tagalog, and not those who are from America and learned it at school and speak it really well. This is not being racist, it's not being prejudice, I just want some one whose first language is Tagalog. And if every time I advertised I received thousands of resumes from Americans who hid the fact that they were American inside a very small part of their resumes, I would want to make sure that the Americans understood that I do not want them to send me resumes.

Joe Hoeson


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