Regarding James' letter - (Food for thought, Postbox 25th November) My contract doesn't state anywhere about non-payment for acts of God or civil unrest, etc. My contract was as clear as day. My school still tried it on, but I fought them and got my salary. If your contract does state this and you've signed it, you clearly don't have a leg to stand on. I'm sure many contracts will now be amended. It only took 50 years. What about all the teachers forced out of Bangkok? The ones paying for hotels not knowing what is happening. Many schools haven't even bothered to help their teachers in the slightest. Just kept them in the dark and hope no one will say anything. Not even a phone call to ask 'are you okay?'.

I agree people should have savings, and 'some' teachers should stop living so carelessly - but at the end of the day, why is it okay for businesses that employ these teachers to only make profit and not take any risk? Why are some teachers taking the risk while the agency/school takes little or no risk.? It's not about people needing to be taken care of. It's about doing the right thing. To say we live in a country with no social safety and not many rights does not justify some schools' behaviour. I'm sure many Thai people would be offended with this attitude.

I know many companies here who are paying their absent Thai/foreign staff in full. Some are even paying for hotels for their staff. So stop with this 'this is Thailand' attitude. It all boils down to 'money over morals'.

Liam

I do understand the financial position that some are in regarding the recent floods, but stop short of agreement. Firstly, doesn’t your contract state that you won’t be paid for ‘Acts of God’ and those involving specifically floods, civil unrest, etc.? Mine did, so I’m just left wondering if yours didn’t. You did read yours didn’t you or didn’t you bother and just signed, or simply just didn’t care?

Secondly, why should the school pay? It is hardly the schools fault that the floods occurred. Having said that yes; morally it might have been better if they had at least offered half pay, but they didn’t and they’re not legally obliged to do so. Aren’t we trying to compare ourselves to a western situation here and insist that the employer, or the government or somebody else pay whatever the reason of absence from employment? We are all aware that there is no social security for us here and also that no work equals no pay. Why has it come as a surprise?

Thirdly and finally, you live in a country on the other side of the world, with no social safety net and not many rights. Yes, if you need to be ‘looked after’ then perhaps a return to the EU is your best option. What is it you do with your 30/40 or 50k baht a month? Blow it all and live from day to day? How much do you put away for reasons exactly like this, or insurance, or medical care, or just simply for unknown emergencies? Do you think China is any different? Do you think you can come here with 1000 baht straight off the plane, never have a problem and just live the good life?

I sympathize, but if you intend to live from pay day to pay day, (and just concentrate on having a good time in between), then surely the financial position you’re in is yours and not anyone else’s? Don’t you ever think you’re going to get sick, get older or just for any other reason be unemployed in Asia? In other words, have you ever thought beyond your next pay check and what might happen if it doesn’t materialize? Food for thought.

James

I am with you Mike. I have no choice but to jump for China and hope I can land a job with accommodation provided. I will also lose 9500 baht deposit because the condo owner won't acknowledge the flood as a legitimate reason to vacate - in other words easy money for them. I asked the British embassy for advice about this and you've guessed it - just a list of solicitors - as if I could afford one. But it is better than trying to pay December and January rent and another visa run - whereby I don't even know if I'll get back in the country! It is a very frustrating and stressful time where I should be easily able to live comfortably here but am now lunching on cheap pastries from 7-11 - and I came here to better my chances of work rather than languish on the dole at home. I wish I had chanced the EU now; if anything it would have got rid of the constant need and uncertainty of visa runs.

Kelvin

I am close to boiling point after reading Mike Walker's letter and the fact that a school has not paid a contracted teacher for two months. They were laughing when they said they will not pay you? Where did the money that was allocated for your salary go? The law of the employment jungle says "no pay = no stay". If a school can expect you to go hungry for two months (no pay) then it is time you just left NOW! Take any job, there are hundreds on this website - even if the pay is 15,000 a month (better than nothing for two months). This gives you a month to see a new city and recharge yourself. Then bounce back!

Mr Grumpy

I returned to my school in Bangkok today after almost two months waiting for the floods to subside. When I enquired about being paid for the last eight weeks, the staff just laughed at me. Yes, the teachers are getting absolutely nothing! I think because we are foreigners, the school thinks we all have a nice nest egg behind us and a couple of months without pay won't make a difference. I guess the most annoying thing has been the school's attitude - the very fact that I had dared to suggest that teachers should be paid. To be honest, I'm now in real trouble financially. I arrived here about six months ago with very little in the way of savings and I'm now paying the price. I've got no choice but to leave this school and try and find a better paying job, otherwise I won't survive. I know many old hands will say that I should have arrived with more money in the bank, but no one expects half the country to flood and the situation to reach crisis level. I'm sure I'm not the only teacher in this situation either. It looks like its going to be Mama noodles for Christmas dinner.

Mike Walker

In response to Mel's letter ("Seven months and still illegal, Postbox 21st November) One thing I learnt a long time back, providing you are not uneducated and meet the minimum requirements, is that one must do everything oneself! It is your passport, it is your work permit and it is your life!

Step 1: Go and speak to your director of your school and ask him/her to write a letter to The Teacher's Council stating that you are an essential worker (reminds me of Schindler's List - the movie - Blue Card = life, everything else = death) and that the school is requesting a 2 year temporary waiver.

Step 2: Copy all documents you have and go by yourself (if you are abandoned by your school) to the Teacher's Council in BKK. You can download all forms in advance from http://www.ksp.or.th/Khurusapha/en/

Step 3: Wait for about 3 weeks (maybe faster).

The next steps are not that bad if the school is willing to write that letter to get the 2-year waiver. Failure to do this indicates it is not Thai government departments that are to blame, but it is 100% the lack of support of your school. If such, look for a new job. Till then, keep your head down.

I have always refused to work for an employer without all legal issues in advance. Even if this means leaving the country to get the extension of visa. Till I get the work permit and the non-imm B, I would rather spend 500 baht a night living in a guest house than work as an illegal. In fact, I have found that by telling them such and they actually respect the foreigner a bit more.

Mr Grumpy

Hello Folks, how you doing? My school failed to convert the wp and the non immigrant B visa into a "work visa". Now, I'm back on a tourist visa and they won't even pretend to feel any urgency. Let me think. No, they don't do anything, except - for the tenth time - request signed copies of all pages of my passport and copies of my degree. Something about the TCT (Teachers Council of Thailand). Again. While I am facing arrest and deportation. Tell me, are your shoes pinching like this, too? Is this "normal"? Would you remind them to sort this out pdq? Okay, all those big shot Thais turn to yours truly to write up a curriculum. Maybe they really cannot grasp that they need to issue the letter for yet another B visa etc? Just wondering. Signed - Unhappy up North.

Phil says - Hi Mel. I presume in your letter that 'wp' stands for work permit? In that case, It's not possible to convert a work permit into a 'work visa'? One is a work permit and the other thing is a visa. They serve different purposes. Actually - and I need to point this out again - there is no such thing as a 'work visa' in Thailand anyway. What you get is a one-year extension on your non-immigrant B visa. At no point should it ever be referred to as a 'work visa' because it isn't one. It's the work permit that enables you to work legally in the country and it's the visa that allows you to stay legally in the country - and they are two entirely seperate things! I'm all in favor of teachers using the ajarn postbox to let off steam - that's what the postbox is there for - but you need to get the terminology correct and you need to have some idea of how the system works.

Mel

I totally agree with the last few letters to the ajarn Postbox. Some of the situations they wrote about have happened to good friends of mine and myself. At this moment in time, I find myself teaching in a small town close to Nakhonsawan. I've been teaching here for four months and at first I thought I wouldn't last because the town is small and very rural. It soon became apparent to me, that the students in the school were the best I've taught. And the Thai teachers were also the best I've had the pleasure of teaching with. Can I just add, I've taught in nine schools here in Thailand and the problems mentioned in the last few posts, happened in 90% of those schools.

Then out of the blue I land a job in the middle of nowhere, expecting the worst case scenario, as usual. Only to find it as normal as it can get in a Thai school with Thai teachers that are pretty normal and students that want to learn most of the time. I'm not saying it's totally great here but it's 100% better than any of the other schools I've been in. They have asked me to stay and teach here for several years. And to be honest I think I will. I am under no illusion, I know Thais can turn on a sixpence but I'm hoping I can enjoy a good few years teaching here. However, don't be surprised if you read a post from me in six months saying the opposite. lol.

Dear Russell, congratulations on finding a very good school to work at. I agree with you that your opinion of your current school may change later because you're in the 'honeymoon stage.' However, I sincerely hope that you continue to enjoy a pleasant working environment. Unfortunately, I can't write any positive statements about my government (MEP) school. But writing about my situation would be appropriate for another posting, and not in this one. Still, it's nice to hear good news once in a while. Best of luck to you. Jim

Mr. Russell Park

In praise of Thai schools, or rather the distinct lack of. Yes, every country has its good or bad jobs, but with increasing frustration I seek to read of a happy or even contented foreign teacher in Thailand. Post after post detailing the inadequacies of the Thai education system and perhaps the ‘happy’ teachers are far too busy enjoying themselves to respond?

Granted, previously I had only been in Thailand for three years, but in that time I never met a teacher who enjoyed their job. I do suppose there are, but I also think they might be an endangered species. Now again granted, I am not in the lofty position of being a qualified teacher, but even so I never met one of those that was happy either. Thailand is not what you make it, it’s what Thailand makes of you and Mr Grumpy in his post perfectly sums that up. If this happened in our respective countries there would be an outcry, strikes, the unions would be up in arms. So why do we pretend? Why do we pretend that in some unfathomable way we are helping children by passing the failures and conforming to crooked practices? Why do we pretend that being a ‘qualified’ teacher in some way separates us from the crowd when we are all well aware that the main requirements are to be under 30, have a white skin and the energy to jump up and down? Why do we put ourselves above those of the Peace Corps, who can and do probably jump up and down higher than we can and will do it for a lot less money!

These ‘professionally run’ schools in Thailand, where are they? Is it where the ‘professional’ teachers are?! Let’s be honest and say that professionally qualified or not, we are/were here because it’s a great place to live and let’s not pretend that altruism in helping children, or to improve the Thai education system is why we came here. We are all required to cheat and lie and come the exams not one of my students ever achieved less than a 50% score – my employment depended on it as did the ‘professional’ teachers. We were/are all regularly and on a daily basis used and abused and that applies equally to those who have a Masters degree in education as it does to the newly arrived graduates in social whatever. My own personal opinion is that the Thai mentality is not adaptable and when this is allied with the ‘Mai Pen Rai’ attitude, the results can only be a failure in whatever direction that management is applied.

So I came to China. Yes, there are probably instances of not being paid by companies, probably corruption and yes, if you can’t speak Chinese and how many can, there is a feeling of isolation. Yet I haven’t come across teaching problems, discipline problems or overworked, burned out foreigners. Perhaps it’s why China excels and in a recent Thai government acknowledgement, is why Thai children have the lowest attainment and IQ in the Eastern hemisphere. It is not our fault, qualified or not, it is the fault of the system in which we play a part because we are unable to change it. Again, in my opinion, the situation will only get worse as more people leave and are replaced by those willing to adapt to the ‘Thai way’.

James

In response to Phil's front Page Comment that links to an article from the Phuket Gazette that states that foreign teachers are in short supply (in Phuket). In all the years I have been teaching here, I have met a few kids that ruffled my feathers. But, nothing I could not manage. That is what comes with experience and teacher training - TEFL courses do help, but nothing beats a real long term program. However, nothing can prepare the foreign teacher for the employee-to-management-to-admin staff life. Dealing with these matters can drive the most experienced teachers up the wall and can turn a normally friendly teacher into a paranoid wreck!

Daily fears of ‘did one Wai the director or janitor the right way’ can take a higher precedence than lesson quality. Don’t forget, the janitor often gets paid before the foreign teachers and he/she cleans the director’s office. Upset the janitor and the director knows about the teacher’s deepest and darkest secrets – such might include bathroom habits, eating habits or even worse, the contents of the teacher’s dustbin!

If the foreign teacher can survive the Wai, then he/she must overcome the grumpy smile-less faces of the close to retirement teachers that still remember the Dark Ages. The foreign teacher’s salary, skin colour, dress sense, mode of transportation and eating habits all irritate those godfathers and godmothers of the place of learning. Many of them associate more with the stray dogs than with their fellow Thai teachers and a lot less than with students. The foreign teacher is doomed from the start, as nothing will please these respected people whose one word results in instant contract termination and 24 hours to leave the country or face jail. However, the more capable foreign teacher can win by being the friend of one’s enemy – feed those straw dogs!

If the foreign teacher has overcome the above, then his/her battle just begins. The dreaded visa and work permit is enough to have most foreigners run to the hills. All the paperwork required must be signed by the director. If the Wai is not perfected or the stray dogs are not fed, expect delays or even no visa and workpermit. Also, there is the need for the teachers licence or the 2 year ‘absolution of all failures’ document from the teacher’s council. It is easier to become a Freemason than to get these documents. Without these a visa and workpermit will not be issued.

This battle hardened teacher is now ready to teach in Phuket!

Then he/she turns to the job section of his/her favourite website and sees a list of 15-20,000 Baht a month jobs offering 9 month contracts where only 6 are paid for. The foreign teacher suddenly gets a flashback of all those years feeding the stray dogs, kneeling down to Wai anybody and everybody (including the straw dogs), remembers the months he/she never got paid for teaching work done, travelling at night to a Myanmar border where guns with live ammunition were pointed at him/her; just to get that temporary visa and avoid being arrested and chained in a dungeon.

The foreign teacher, slowly gets up on a stool, places the noose and tightens it around his/her neck. Before he/she kicks the stool, a question is asked...
Does the relaxation of requirements, by the Phuket Education office (as mentioned in the news report) address the above?

Mr Grumpy