Hot Seat

Phil Dunne

It’s been almost four years since we interviewed Phil Dunne, The Managing Director of Island TEFL on Koh Samui. Back in July 2010, Phil had in fact just purchased the company and had some very ambitious plans. Let’s find out how life’s treating him?

Q

Hi Phil, welcome back to the ajarn hot seat. What we’re going to do here is have a chat about a number of things associated with TEFL but since we last put you in the hot seat – and without going into detail just yet – how would you describe the last four years for you?

A

First of all Phil, let me say thank you for having me here. Has it really been four years? Well, you know what they say - time flies when you are having fun. The last few years have been busy, busy, busy and fun and rewarding on so many levels.

We have increased our TEFL training locations in Thailand, established TEFL training and English language learning centers in the U.K., Spain, France, Brazil, Mexico and the U.S. We have formed alliances with youth travel organisations, colleges, universities and non-profit foundations with the intent of bringing English teachers and teachers of other subjects, in English, to Asia and in particular China and Thailand.

Q

You’ve formed a partnership with the University of San Diego. How did the partnership come about and when you went in search of a university to partner with, what made you choose USD?

A

The partnership has been two years in the making. I was contacted by a University of San Diego (USD) representative who subsequently arranged a meeting for myself and the Director of the English Language Academy at the University of San Diego.

I was extremely impressed by the reputation that USD had established for itself and the work USD was doing in the U.S. and around the globe. It has one of the finest teacher training programs in the U.S. and has established teaching missions in numerous countries.

Q

So what advantages does the partnership with USD have for you as a TEFL course provider?

A

Before I can answer that Phil, I need to explain that over the past four years Island TEFL has evolved into being more than just a TEFL course provider. We now offer teacher recruitment and placement services as well as offering English language instruction and corporate training programs in various countries.

We also work with volunteer organisations requiring teachers and we represent universities and colleges in the U.S. and U.K, recruiting students from around the world for those institutions.

The advantages that our partnership with the University of San Diego has are numerous. USD is a prestigious university with a reputation for having a great teacher training program. It also has its own 125-hour TEFL certification course, which we market - and is taught by their faculty in San Diego or in our locations in Thailand.

Not only are we able to provide teachers to schools in Thailand and other countries, but here are also other advantages for teachers that opt to do the USD TEFL program. For example they can earn credits towards an online USD Master’s in TESOL or Education program should they decide that they want to further their teaching careers.

Obviously, now that Island TEFL has the ability to set up language schools in partnership with the University of San Diego in countries around the world, it means that we can now make English Language training accessible to more students of English and create a pathway for them to enter universities in the U.S.

Q

OK I wanted to talk about a few different things here. You’ve clearly travelled around a bit in recent years and you’ve spent some time with the Thai, Korean and Chinese Ministries of Education. Were you at these three ministries for the same reason or different agendas?

A

Mostly the same agendas Phil - learning how we can help bring new teachers and language schools to these countries and to understand what the different requirements and mechanics are in each territory.

At the other end of the spectrum we wanted to ascertain how we can best recruit nationals from those countries for universities and colleges in the U.S. and U.K, who have been experiencing dramatic declines in their enrolment numbers from citizens in their own countries.

Q

What have been the causes of these declining enrolments?

A

One major factor has been the prolonged severity of the economic recession which has meant that families and students have just not had the funds to finance a college education.

Even if they had the funds, many families saw their savings wiped out when stocks and housing prices plummeted and for many families that was compounded when many became laid off and their personal debt ratios increased, which reduced their borrowing power.

Banks and other financial institutions were also caught in the downturn, which ironically they played a big part in creating, and have become more restrictive and selective in their lending requirements.

In previous downturns when people were laid off, universities could expect to see an increase in enrolment from this subset but this time has been different. This is because there has been a proliferation in the creation and growth of online universities and colleges.

This has provided a lower cost and often a more convenient alternative for people to gain a higher education rather than enrolling in a traditional college or university.

Q

And what are the ‘traditional’ colleges and universities doing about it?

A

Faced with lowered enrolment from nationals in their base country and lower endowments and often other sources of funding, many traditional colleges and universities are faced with a fight for their survival.

Proactive colleges and universities have looked to set up their own online learning programs to compete with the proliferation of upstart online colleges and universities. This has also had a cannibalization effect on traditional enrollment as many students elect to study online rather than attend the university.

The biggest trend that I see amongst traditional colleges and universities to reverse the trend of declining enrolment numbers is to try and attract more and more foreign students from foreign countries.

If we look at China for example, the middle class purchasing power has been increasing. There are more people learning English in China, over 400 million people, than the combined traditional native English speaking population of the U.S., U.K, Canada, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand and South Africa put together.

Countries like China realize the importance of education and they encourage families to send students to attend traditional U.S. and U.K universities and colleges.

Placement agents in China can earn the equivalent of $10,000 USD from a family to arrange and organize the placement of their son or daughter in a traditional U.S. or U.K. university.

It is interesting to see that we are now witnessing the beginning of traditional universities and colleges setting up English language schools and programs in China and other countries.

Q

You’re also keen on speaking at gap year seminars and education travel fairs, etc. You have always been keen to make inroads into the gap year market haven’t you?

A

That is true. Gap Year students are ideally suited for volunteer and short-term, paid English teaching placements during their gap year and in the past few years we have seen increases in the numbers of gap year students.

This is partly due to the facts that as I previously mentioned, families or students in many Western countries are finding it harder to finance a traditional university or college education, or people are not finding a job or being laid off. For many of these people, taking a gap year before entering college or the work force has become a natural choice.

Q

I do sometimes wonder if ‘gap year teachers’ are partly responsible for keeping salaries in Thailand at a relatively low level. I mean, these guys come for 12 months, have a great time, and then they’re gone. And the school replaces them with another gap year teacher at 30,000 baht a month for 12 months. What would you say about that? It can’t be good news for the ‘long-term career teacher' can it?

A

I have heard that argument before Phil but I don’t buy it. Is it the school that replaces the teacher for 30,000 baht or a teacher placement agency?

We have schools hiring gap year students directly from us and they pay the teacher 35,000 Baht per month and we take nothing from their salary. If you look at the many teacher placement agencies that are out there you will find that the schools often pay them from 35,000 – 40,000 baht per teacher per month yet those agencies will often only pay the teacher 30,000 baht per month.

We hear complaints all the time from teachers whose agencies take over 20% from their salaries. Many agencies are late in paying the teachers or in some cases agencies have not paid them at all. So, rather than blame the gap year student for artificially low salaries I would say that the agencies have more of a case to answer for.

If I were a teacher I could see paying an agent perhaps 5% of my salary for their services but 20% or more is excessive in my opinion.

Q

If we made a list of gap year teaching destinations, I’m guessing that Thailand would be near the top? What other countries in Asia are up there?

A

You are correct Phil. With respect to Asia, Thailand is the number one country of choice for gap year students seeking short term teaching opportunities. In a recent article in the Washington Post, China and Thailand were ranked the top two countries in the world for expats to live.

Thailand and its way of life, has a magic and freedom about it that makes it an irresistible and compelling choice for many people, including myself.

Indonesia, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos are other popular destinations for gap year students.

Q

I often make jokes on Twitter about the ideal gap year being ‘weekdays spent teaching English and weekends spent hunting wild boar with the village headman or teaching gibbons how to play the harmonica” – but I guess young people are just looking for adventure and I’m getting old and cynical?

A

Phil, don’t you think that most people, regardless of age, like fun and adventure? In the case of gap year students I often feel that they are given a bad rap and not given credit for the good that they achieve.

It might surprise you to know that top Ivy league schools in the U.S. such as Harvard and Princeton for example actually encourage students to take a gap year before coming to college. Research has shown that students who take a gap year before entering college are more self- aware, mature and focused than students that don’t follow this path.

The college graduation rate for gap year students is around 97% as opposed to less than 80% for non-gap year students. Many gap year skeptics will focus on all the images of gap year students partying rather than taking a balanced view and looking at all the good that comes with a gap year.

It offers the opportunity for young people to gain self-awareness, define or clarify their life’s mission, experience personal growth and learn new skills. When we are talking about gap year students teaching, they are giving back to those in need and being of service to others while adding valuable credentials to their C.V.’s.

By the way Phil, there are also “golden year” gap year programs where people have retired or taken early retirement from their careers and want to give back to society and try something new such as teaching.

Q

As we all know, ASEAN will be here in 2015. How important will learning English really be do you think? Has there been a tendency to overplay the importance of one either learning English and speaking it well - or being left behind?

A

When I was an investment banker I was trained to follow where the smart money was being invested. Although China, Japan and Korea will not enter ASEAN until a few years from now you only need to speak to the Ministries of Education or business leaders in those countries to know how important learning English is and will continue to become for ASEAN countries.

English language schools have sprung up everywhere and in China one of the most popular programs for children is “Kids MBA”.

If we take it as a given that ASEAN will mean freedom of trade and movement of labor and English is the official chosen language for business then absolutely one runs the real risk of being left behind if one doesn’t learn to communicate proficiently in English.

Q

Do you think Thailand is ready for ASEAN?

A

I love Thailand and I love living here but that is a politically loaded question and one that I would prefer not to answer directly. What I can do is point your readers to the following link http://thelearningcurve.pearson.com/index/index-ranking.

The most recent Pearson “Index of cognitive skills and education attainment” ranking of 40 countries has Finland at number one followed by South Korea, China/Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore rounding out the top 5 countries. Thailand is ranked in the bottom 10% of the 40 countries coming in at number 37 out of 40.

Q

One thing that has been difficult to predict is what effect ASEAN will have on the English teacher job market in Thailand and in neighboring Asian countries. How do you think it will pan out?

A

It has been and will continue to be an excellent period for English teachers and teachers of other subjects in English. I do expect that the standard of teaching will increase.

Many countries are no longer accepting the pure online TEFL certification and many are becoming stricter with the qualification requirements. For example if you don’t have a Bachelor’s or equivalent, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find full-time English teaching positions.

Q

What are the Thai Government and Ministry of Education doing in preparation for ASEAN? Any insider knowledge you can let us in on?

A

Nice try Phil! I am not at liberty to discuss the content of our meetings and discussions but in general terms the Ministry is looking at how many hours students should be learning English each week and how they can integrate programs designed specifically to improve the level of conversational English.

They are also looking at restricting class sizes to no more than 20 0r 25 students rather than the current situation where it is not atypical to have 45 or more students in a class.

Obviously this would increase the demand for teachers and then they have to explore ways to do that, such as bringing Thai English teachers out retirement or doing joint programs with universities like the University of San Diego where we can bring many qualified teachers and trainee teachers to Thailand to teach English and teach other subjects in English.

You will also see more and more schools offering bilingual (Thai and English) programs. As you know the school year dates remained unchanged for 2014 but if they can be moved for 2015 onwards, this will tie in more conveniently with university summer holidays in the U.K. and U.S - which will ensure a further increased supply of available teachers.

Q

Will we see an increase in teacher salaries Phil or is 30,000 baht a month here to stay for a good while longer?

A

As I said previously Phil, we are able to place teachers directly into schools so that they have remuneration packages of a minimum of 35,000 Baht per month.

One such school that we supply teachers to was the first school in Thailand to offer a bilingual Program in English and Thai. Not only do they pay 35,000 Baht per month, they pay all year round, offer a generous housing allowance and they offer a 12 month completion bonus of 70,000 Baht.

If you factor everything in, you are looking at a package of over 40,000 Baht per month.

Even through the Thai charity foundation that we partner with in Phuket, they have volunteer and paid teaching placements. They have positions right now for 35,000 baht.

My recommendation would be for schools to advertise directly on websites such as ajarn.com rather than go through agencies that often take out 25% or more of the gross teacher salary.

This way the school can attract more qualified teachers and pay them more. For teachers they should apply directly to schools and consider bypassing agencies wherever possible.

Now, if the agency is a reputable one and can provide them a job and take care of them without charging more than 5% of their gross salary, then this can be a win-win situation for the school, agency and teacher.

Q

Thanks a lot Phil for your time.

A

Thanks Phil and I look forward to talking to you in another four years.

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