| Q |
Crven, welcome to the
hot seat. What about the general opinion that Thailand is a 'bureaucratic
nightmare' for teachers wanting to work legally in Thailand? How does it
compare to other countries in SE Asia? |
| A |
Well I've never really dealt with
other places in the region but I think any country would be hard pressed to
come up with a system as convoluted as Thailand's. If the school admin
people don't really know their stuff, AND keep the teacher fully informed,
there's all manner of ways of inadvertently getting spanners in the works,
and leaving teachers with no option but to leave the country on the dreaded
visa run, and start all the paperwork again at square one. |
| Q |
Any particular traps
you have in mind? |
| A |
I think the easiest mistake to make is
to leave the country when you've already got the correct visa, and forget to
get a re-entry permit before you do so. When you come back to Thailand your
original visa is no longer valid. Back to square one. Now you might think
you wouldn't fall for that one - but what if you have a multiple entry
non-immigrant visa, and your work permit application has been submitted?
You'd also need a re-entry permit, because although you could come back in
to Thailand and get a new 90 day stamp on your non-imm visa, you've just
invalidated your WP application and in effect cancelled everything. Back to
square one. Then there's the simple matter of
constantly following up the progress of paperwork submitted to Government
Departments. All too often, if you submit papers which are not exactly in
order, and don't put in the phone cal to see how things are going, you'll
simply not hear anything for weeks. Then the visa has expired by the time
you finally get in touch and are told that all work has stopped because one
of the 24 photographs of the applicant has gone missing. |
| Q |
So how come you, as a
farang, handle the school's administration for this kind of thing? |
| A |
Quite simply, it's hard enough for me,
as a native speaker, to explain the rules to a foreign teacher. Imagine how
it would be for a Thai faced with the prospect of making sure the foreign
staff kept on the right side of the law. And I think it's easier for the
foreigner to have confidence that he has nothing to worry about if a fellow
farang is handling his paperwork - if I look worried, he should be worried.
If I look relaxed, he can relax. If a Thai administrator looks relaxed it
could well be he's forgotten all about you and you're one slip-up short of
the Immigration Detention Centre...... Of course, we have a very good Thai
gentleman in the office too whose job it is to assist me. Or mine to assist
him. Bit of a horse and jockey situation really. |
| Q |
There's been an
enormous price hike recently in the costs of work permits and visas. Are
most schools going to absorb these costs or sneakily pass them onto the
teacher? |
| A |
At an educated guess, schools that
previously didn't pay certainly still won't, and a few that did use to pay
may have second thoughts. We do still cover the whole cost for our teachers
but the directors weren't best pleased with the increases. The costs now
stand at 2000 baht for a non-imm B visa (varies from embassy to embassy)
plus 1900 for an extension which takes you from the initial 90 days up to
one year. Then if you time it right, there's a work permit fee of 3000 baht
for a permit lasting between six months and one year. I say if you time it
right because if you got a work permit as soon as you arrived, it would
initially be valid only up to the end of your first 90 day stamp, and it
would cost 750 baht. Then you'd have to get it extended (requiring tax
papers) for the next nine months in line with your visa extension. And that
would be another 3000 baht. So if you can squeeze everything through at the
last minute, ideally on the day your visa expires, you can save yourself
some money and hassle. |
| Q |
Supposedly you need a
letter of 'intent to employ' from a language institute before a teacher can
get a non-immigrant visa. In reality does this piece of paper get the job
done? |
| A |
It might well do, but in general I
feel you should take along copies of the business registration papers and
also director's and principal's licenses to be on the safe side. It has also
been suggested that at Vientiane, if your school is not on their list, you
won't get a visa. It hapened to me a few years back but things change......
It also seems that consulates and embassies in the west are not quite so
strict on the exact requirements, compared to embassies in neighboring
countries. |
| Q |
For the teacher
looking to apply for a non-immigrant visa in a neighboring country, which
are currently the best and worst places to head for? |
| A |
We use one that nobody else seems to
have heard of. Savannakhet, Laos. Overnight bus from Bangkok to Mukdahan (10
hours) then a boat across the Mekong. Laos visa available on the border for
500 baht. Put in your application the same morning, pick it up the following
afternoon. Back on the bus to Bangkok. One of our guys did it last week -
left BKK at 8pm Wednesday night, back home by 7am Saturday morning, total
cost under 5,500 baht (hotel, taxis, visa fees, the lot).
On the downside, he said he'd met a Buddhist monk who'd come down to
Mukdahan from Chiang Rai on a temple visit. The monk reckoned Mukdahan was
an awful place with nothing to do. Take a couple of good books. |
| Q |
Once a teacher has the
right visa stamp in his passport, how long does it really take to get that
work permit through? |
| A |
Errrr, well, are we assuming that the
teacher co-operates? First of all we need to get a teacher's license. If
he's had one before, we still need to submit all the same papers, but with
some extra ones from the teacher's last job. Personally I'd rather start
from scratch. This means I need a resume from the teacher covering key
points such as father's religion and dates of high school attendance. All
this info goes into several documents, some in English, some in Thai. Then I
need his degree certificate. The original would be nice because the Ministry
of Education can ask to see it. A copy may suffice however, but don't leave
it to chance because if they DO want to see an original and you haven't got
it to hand, you could find your visa expires before the license is granted.
I then need to get a certified translation. I also need copies of the
passport and a Thai health certificate (50 baht from any clinic). I also
need lots of photographs of different sizes. Things like the teacher's
schedule and contract can be done without the teacher's help, as can all the
documents about the school itself. If I get everything from the teacher
promptly I can probably get the papers submitted in a couple of days. Then
it can take anything from a couple of days (if you know the lady who does
the papers and the situation is demonstrably urgent) to a month.
Once you have the teacher's license though, the problems are pretty much
over. You can then submit an application for a work permit, (needs another
health certificate) and the recipt for that application is enough to get you
a further nine month visa extension. It could then be another three weeks
before the little blue book is actually in your hands. |
| Q |
And you were saying
something about teachers who've had licenses before.......you must be a
really good laugh at parties Crven. |
| A |
I am. Undoubtedly. Basically if a
teacher has had a license before then when his new employer applies (more or
less for permission to employ him as a teacher) he must supply various
documents obtainable from the last employer upon leaving. These are, a Sor
Chor 11, a Sor Chor 19, a Ror 12, a teacher's book and a Tor Tor 10. Oh, and
a Ngor something or other 91 about tax, demanded by immigration if they
remember. So when you leave a job in Thailand, try to get hold of these
things, and then try not to lose them because they ARE important and they
mean a lot to the people down at the Min of Ed, Labour and Immigration. |
| Q |
I ask this question to
everyone, so for a bit of light relief, where do you stand on the native
speaker vs non-native speaker debate? |
| A |
Ideally you want a qualified competent
native speaker. If you can't have that though, because there aren't any
around, or you're not paying enough to get one, then a non-native can do the
job in many cases, especially at lower levels. And as for all that nonsense
about students picking up a French accent - none of mine have ever developed
anything other than a strong Thai accent, so I don't think there's much to
worry about. |
| Q |
Fake degree
certificates? Now you must have a funny fake degree story that you tell on
special occasions? |
| A |
I don't think this is a matter for
frivolity, Philip. But I do think that if you really must use a fake degree
it's a good idea to spell "certificate" correctly on your certificate. Some
fakes look very very good and as yet there doesn't seem to be a concerted
effort to crack down on them. I think in the end it would have to come down
to the schools themselves to be pressured not to submit a fake document,
using the threat of heavy fines. That would place the onus on schools to
check credentials more carefully. It can certainly be done, but at the
moment few schools bother. |
| Q |
What's your stance on
these life degrees? Is it feasible that four years working as a shop
assistant in a golf shop carries as much weight as three years of wild
parties, unprotected sex, and propping up the student union bar? |
| A |
If I was recruiting I don't think I'd
be impressed. I mean life is something we've all attended and very few of us
feel the need to get a certificate to prove it. I suppose for admin purposes
though the question would be whether or not the Min of Ed would accept one
and grant a teacher's license on the strength of it. Logically I would doubt
it, but then again it honestly wouldn't surprise me to see one slip through
the net. |
| Q |
How do you see the
Thailand TEFL industry five years from now? Do you envisage a big change or
will schools still be paying 300 baht an hour for weekend work and will
Bruce and James be bosom buddies? |
| A |
Thais will still want to learn
English. Bruce and James will still be at it. Beyond that, who knows? We may
see fewer people willing or able to work here if rules are tightened. That
could push pay and standards up. The Thai economy may go from strength to
strength attracting hundreds of new teachers all eager to get their hands on
sky-rocketing wages. I do think that those who have at least a degree and a
teaching certificate will still be able to enjoy life in Thailand in five
years' time, and while things seem to be changing, I doubt that things will
be unrecognisable a few years down the track. |
